Ep. 55 – Cody Boyce: The Power of Podcasts for Lifelong Learning & Networking

 

Today we’re pulling back the curtain to reveal the Wizard of Pod(casts), Cody Boyce, Founder of Podcast Masters. Cody and his team produce podcasts for entrepreneurs, small businesses, and other organizations that want to create brand authority, connect with an audience, and sound great doing it… including this one!

We discuss why podcasts are a powerful medium, for both hosts and listeners, and how the industry is likely to change over the next few months.

One of the most important pieces of podcasting, which a lot of people don’t think about, is its potential for lifelong learners. People who listen to podcasts are consuming so much information that can help them be more productive, do their job more effectively, be funnier, and countless other things. The list is constantly growing – there are 1,000 new podcasts (shows, not episodes) on iTunes every week!

Part of the reason that podcasts are so effective for lifelong learning, and what makes the medium so unique, is the freedom.

For the audience, podcasts can be listened to almost anywhere. Working out, on the commute, even while doing work – it’s available everywhere you are, as long as you have battery life.

For hosts, there is freedom in the space to do whatever they want. They can talk however, to whomever, and using whatever structure is most appealing.  

By virtue of this freedom and the relative intimacy of listening in on these conversations, podcasts hosts and audiences also form a relationship that you don’t necessarily see in other media.

This connection makes podcasts increasingly important for anyone, especially entrepreneurs, who want to develop a brand and build a community. It’s one of the easiest, and cheapest, ways to establish yourself in a particular niche.

That leads us to one of the biggest questions about podcasts: monetization. You aren’t likely to monetize a show directly through ads. However, it is a great way to establish yourself as an expert authority in a space and begin adding value to people in your industry. If you can prove your authority and value in a space, then you can use the podcast to sell a product or attract customers to your actual business.

Download this Episode MP3.

You can check out more of Cody’s shows here:

Manage to Engage – “We train leaders, managers and people who will be in the skills they need to not only be successful, but to be clear and open as people. Dedicated to the evolution of you, because businesses grow when people do.”

Balanced Blonde – “Here we will discuss everything from the young entrepreneurial blogging life to wellness, friendship, branding a business, writing, how to keep the passion alive and so much more. On each episode Jordan will interview someone in her life who has set their soul on fire and is doing awesome things.”

The ONE Thing – “Discover the surprisingly simple truth behind extraordinary results. Learn how the most successful people in the world approach productivity, time management, business, health and habits with the ONE thing.”

Transcript:

Click to download the full Transcript PDF.

Cody: [00:00:00] If you do the research and you know how to get the show up and running or if you are fortunate enough to have a production team it’s fairly easy to make the content that you want to make that’s in your space. You don’t have a filter, you don’t have a company that you have to go through in order to approve what you’re talking about. You can just do what you feel is the right thing to do, develop your show, and then put it out there.

[music]

Peter: [00:00:29] Welcome to improv is no joke podcast, where it’s all about becoming a more effective communicator by embracing the principles of improvisation. I’m your host Peter Margaritis, the self-proclaimed chief edutainment officer of my business, the Accidental Accountant. My goal is to provide you with thought provoking interviews with business leaders so you can become an effective improviser, which will lead to building stronger relationships with clients, customers, colleagues, and even your family. So let’s start to show. Today’s guest is Cody Boyce, who’s the founder of Podcast Masters, and his company produces my podcast.

[music]

Peter: [00:01:13] Cody welcome and thank you for taking time out of your schedule to be a guest on my podcast today.

Cody: [00:01:20] Pete, thank you for having me. It is a pleasure.

Peter: [00:01:23] Now listen everybody. We just pulled the curtain back from the Wizard of podcasting – that is the voice of Cody Boyce, as I said he is the guru the genius behind- He makes me look good, and that takes a lot of work.

Cody: [00:01:36] [laughs]

Peter: [00:01:37] And the reason I asked him to be on my podcast today is because the feedback from my guests and the audience out there has just been overwhelming at times, and I’ve forwarded this stuff to him. And I think let’s talk to the expert about podcasting, and so let’s just go right to the source and that’s what I think Cody you can be an outstanding guest today. But before we get into those pieces can you just tell us a little bit about who Cody is and how did you fall into this?

Cody: [00:02:08] Yeah absolutely. So my background is in music. I studied music here in Columbus at Otterbein College in Westerville focusing on guitar and then started getting specialized in audio production and recording. So once I graduated I was you know doing gigs, I was doing recordings, and some composing and production work. And then when I discovered podcasting having that background of recording kind of lended itself well to getting involved with it. I had a buddy that had been listening to a variety of shows and was just saying you know week after week you’ve got to start listening. You’ve got to start listening to these. And this is like 2013 I think, and I started with Joe Rogan, the Joe Rogan Experience show, which is still to this day my favorite podcast. And then it was just you know a whirlwind from there. I just started downloading as many as I could and decided to you know plug my mics in, since I already had them, and start recording a few things of my own with a buddy of mine. That that got rolling and then I started doing some freelance work and it just kind of spiraled out of control. It’s just been a snowball since like 2013, 2014.

Peter: [00:03:13] Because I remember when I was thinking about doing this, I did my research. I knew I didn’t have time to do the post-production work. And I was just like searching around the inter-webs and I came across this company podcast masters, and I looked at the address it was New Albany, Ohio. That’s really weird… finding someone in my backyard, and we met a couple of times to talk about some stuff. It was kind of ironic and you know I’m glad I found you.

Cody: [00:03:45] Yeah yeah. I’m glad the site popped up for you. It’s funny that you found me being so close. You were actually our first client that was in the city of Columbus. Everyone that we worked with up until that point I’d met online on Facebook or you know through referrals all over the globe, but you are actually our first show from Columbus.

Peter: [00:04:04] And how many shows now do you have in Columbus?

Cody: [00:04:08] In Columbus, we have five or six that are here in the city. My wife started a show at the end of last year so that was another big one that we started working on.

Peter: [00:04:17] And you’re charging her double, right?

Cody: [00:04:21] [laughs] Of course.

Peter: [00:04:22] I mean I’ve heard – I had a friend of mine who had been telling me for years “you gotta start a podcast,” and I just kind of hemmed and hawed. And why do people really get into podcasting? Because it’s really a radio show. A micro radio show.

Cody: [00:04:37] Right. Yeah it’s radio, but it’s to such a level of accessibility that it’s just kind of unprecedented, and accessibility in terms of hosting a show and being a listener of a show. You know you can download as many shows as you want for free and listen to them at your convenience. And the strongest thing that I think about audio, as opposed to video as opposed to a written word, is that it’s such a passive activity that you can do and still absorb the information. You know that’s why I think there’s been such a huge growth in the space here in podcasting because you can throw a show on on your commute, at the gym, while you’re on your walk – whatever it is – and be able to multitask and still digest that information. And as far as hosting goes, if you do the research and you know how to get the show up and running, or if you are fortune enough to have a production team, it’s fairly easy to make the content that you want to make that’s in your space. You don’t have to have a filter, you don’t have a company that you have to go through in order to approve what you’re talking about. You can just do what you feel is the right thing to do, develop your show, and then put it out there.

Peter: [00:05:39] And that’s probably the most fun that I have had – just going out there and just being as creative as possible and testing out different things at different times, and not having to “oh I have to get my boss to approve this.

Cody: [00:05:55] Right.

Peter: [00:05:55] And having that freedom as well. I always wonder when I watch somebody when they get their ear buds in, or even if I’m watching a basketball game and the players are coming out and they get the headphones on, the natural assumption is that they’re listening to music.

Cody: [00:06:08] Right.

Peter: [00:06:09] But which could actually be the opposite. They could be listening to some type of podcast, spoken word, or something versus the music itself.

Cody: [00:06:16] Right. Yeah exactly. That’s one thing that I’ve started wondering now, as I see people with headphones. What are they actually listening to? And it’s funny that you mention sports players coming out too because there’s not just like interview shows or like talk radio style shows up on iTunes anymore. I mean there’s yoga sequence podcasts that I’ve seen. There’s you know inspirational, short, three to five minute inspirational quotes kind of to get you amped up for your day or whatever you’re getting involved in. So it’s just such a wide variety you know.

Peter: [00:06:44] I haven’t seen the inspirational quotes, but I’ll look for them because I was watching the finals last night of the NBA and I saw Kevin Durant come out and he had his headphones on and I swear he was listening to my podcast.

Cody: [00:06:57] Maybe that’s what won the game for him.

Peter: [00:06:58] We’re in Ohio. I’m going to be cast out of this state right now by saying that. Holy cow. So people start a podcast to get whatever message that they want to get out to a wider audience than the written word. Like from a commute – you can put it in and you can listen to it, versus you can’t do it with video in a car. You can’t do with a video as a passenger at times because of connectivity, but with a podcast that you’ve got downloaded you’re consuming content constantly.

Cody: [00:07:34] Yeah and it’s just easier for you to do multiple things. It saves you time it makes you… I would say, in a lot of ways, it makes you more productive throughout the day because you don’t have to alot you know a specific amount of time to listen to something, to study, or digest an interview or an informational podcast. You can get it done in the meantime while you have other stuff happening.

Peter: [00:07:54] And I think the piece about podcasts that maybe a lot of people don’t think about: we talk about lifelong learning, and I believe with podcasting – and those who listen to a lot of podcasts – we’re actually go through that lifelong learning process because we’re consuming so much information, and then it’s placing these placeholders in our mind and giving us these ideas on how we can be more productive in life, how we can do things differently, how we can be funnier. I think that’s probably one of the most powerful pieces of either producing a podcast and putting on a podcast or the actual listening to the podcast.

Cody: [00:08:35] Yeah. I mean there’s ridiculous like ideas that I never thought I would have, and once I started getting involved in business and growing the company – just ways of doing business or different ideas to be more productive or to help build the team, help grow the company, help market to new clients. Stuff that I never thought of by myself and listening to other shows or listening to – one of my favorite types of podcasts is where it’s an interview, but less of an interview and more like a case study of how someone started X company and took it from from here to there. And those are the ones that really give me the most information. So yeah I mean it just expands your knowledge like crazy and it’s all free, which is the most ridiculous part.

Peter: [00:09:11] Yeah. So you mentioned Joe Rogan. Who are some of your other favorite podcasts that you listen to outside of the ones that you produce?

Cody: [00:09:22] Well Joe Rogan, and if anyone has heard that you know it’s very you know off the cuff conversational style. There’s no rules. There’s no structure. They just kind of chat. And the thing that I love about it is that he has so many different guests. He’ll have like a neuroscientist on one week and then a UFC fighter and then a comedian and then a traveller or something, and it’s just a very eclectic mix. There’s a few shows that are kind of like that I really dig. Tangentially Speaking with Chris Ryan is another one. He’s been kind of traveling around and just doing interviews with people that he meets. It’s been very interesting to listen to. Those are two my favorites that I listen to at the moment. And I wish I could list more, but with the volume of shows that we’re working on and the length of the shows that I listen to it’s hard to fit so many in.

Peter: [00:10:10] Well yeah I guess you know the cobbler doesn’t have shoes for his kids.

Cody: [00:10:17] [laughs]

Peter: [00:10:17] And one of the first shows that I started listening to, and I listened to a lot, is I enjoy Pat Flynn’s Smart Passive Income. It’s given me a ton of different ideas around my podcast, as well as putting some things in play and creating some type of passive income stream.

Cody: [00:10:37] Yeah and that guy is just a like endless endless endless stream of ideas. I mean the amount of episodes that he puts out on a regular basis is just crazy.

Peter: [00:10:47] And I think he’s now doing live on Facebook and going down that path, and he started probably in his basement with a microphone. Just started recording this and he’s been doing it for, what, five-six years?

Cody: [00:10:59] Yeah I think so, and that’s what you just mentioned: kind of starting small and starting off kind of low budget if you need to. That’s one of the things that I really enjoy watching as shows progress: starting out with a single microphone using Skype, kind of like what we’re doing right now, but then you evolve, you get more people in the room, maybe you add video, maybe you’re producing extra content – you’re doing interviews on the road, doing stuff while you’re traveling – and it’s just really cool to see how you can start small and, as things pick up, you can just grow into something that, really, when you started maybe you couldn’t even really forsee happening.

Peter: [00:11:33] Amen. Because I’m coming up on the one year – your episode is just before the one year anniversary and I had no idea where this thing was going to take me. All I knew was I had a message I wanted to get out there and I looked up my numbers the other day and you know I had a good start. I had over 9000 downloads within that year. I’ve been downloaded in every state and U.S. I’m in 120 cities in 35 countries. Even the Russian Federation has downloaded an episode or two of mine.

Cody: [00:12:06] [laughs]

Peter: [00:12:06] So Putin must be listening to me too.

Cody: [00:12:09] [laughs] It’s inspiring when you see just kind of the reach that you have. You know just from uploading a show to one or two sources you can get all across the globe – it’s kind of crazy.

Peter: [00:12:21] It is. And when I think about those who are in business, especially entrepreneurs, it’s almost like a must; you should have a podcast because it’s a great way of getting your message, your brand, your service out in the marketplace. It’s great advertising and it’s got a length and a breath and a depth that is worldwide.

Cody: [00:12:43] Yeah absolutely. Especially for entrepreneurs. That’s the majority of the kind of the shows that we work with just because it has more of a business focus and the shows are leaning into products or services, or the brand authority really is what I like to say, of the entrepreneur themselves. It’s just a really easy way to kind of establish yourself in your niche. Whatever you’re an expert at, you can get on the mike and you know gradually people will be listening and you’re kind of establishing yourself in your space.

Peter: [00:13:13] Yeah it’s been fun to watch the numbers grow over the past year, and at times there will be these huge spikes – and I guess for those of you who have been thinking about this, well I think one of the frustrations that you’ll run into is getting great demographics of your audience. Because what I see is the amount of downloads geographically or whatever, but the demographic makeup, or if I’m getting these spikes where exactly and how… we don’t have access to that information.

Cody: [00:13:46] And you’ll be very excited for me to say what I’m about to say because last week at Apple’s yearly worldwide developer conference they had a specific session on podcasting and they announced a lot of new changes that are going to be coming up once the new phone OS, iOS 11, once that drops later this fall, around when the new iPhone comes out, they’re going to be upgrading a bunch of stuff. There is going to be a new analytics platform from iTunes that’s going to give you way more in-depth stats in terms of subscribers, how many subscribers are actually listening, how long they’re listening, where they’re coming from, what parts they fast forward through. It’s going to be really crazy and I’m so excited for that to happen.

Peter: [00:14:24] Oh my God it’s Christmas in June.

Cody: [00:14:27] Yeah they just kind of rolled that out last week so we’re all kind of… it’s not implemented yet so we have the news and we’re all kind of like salivating and ready to see what’s going to happen.

Peter: [00:14:36] So is this a move forward? We can’t move back and look at prior stuff? This is just things that happen going forward, right?

Cody: [00:14:43] That I don’t know, but I would assume yes.

Peter: [00:14:46] Because I came to you about two weeks ago because I had one episode, the Mike Sciortino episode, one day all of a sudden had 145 downloads, which actually doubled its total downloads in one day.

Cody: [00:14:59] Right.

Peter: [00:14:59] And all we could figure out is that it came out of North Carolina.

Cody: [00:15:02] Yeah. So some somebody’s got really excited about it and started spreading it around their company or their campus or something.

Peter: [00:15:08] Yeah, but we don’t know where – the specifics that are soon to be coming. Yeah. Well I think they’ll make a lot of podcasters very happy – to be able to analyze those analytics.

Cody: [00:15:20] Oh for sure. And that’s like the most frustrating thing that people have been have been kind of mentioning for years since the thing started. You know Apple really kicked things off with the iPod. They started the whole thing, hence the name. But everyone’s been really really looking forward to this. And I know I have a lot of trouble trying to explain to the new podcasters like how the stats actually work and explaining why you can’t see some of the analytics just because they’re not out there for us to look at yet. So this is going to be a big change for the whole industry.

Peter: [00:15:49] That’s great. So I do what I do on this end. I’ve got my Skype, I’ve got my plug-in (which you’ve helped me with), I’ve got the microphone, the boom, and all that stuff. But when I turned the files over to you, what’s the magic that you guys do? And I know that this grew from you, but now you have a team. And tell us about the team.

Cody: [00:16:14] Yeah I mean it’s I cannot be doing what I’m doing without the team. So big shout out to everybody that’s involved. But so podcasting as we know it in the space right now has a few main components. One is obviously audio – that’s the major one. That’s the foundation of the platform. There’s the written, which is the show notes, transcriptions – the written component to each episode. And then we have visual, which sometimes has video but not all shows or video so it’s usually artwork and graphics that correspond to the show. So we have a person on the team for each category there. So Hayden is our audio editor, Ben is our writer, and Zach is our designer. So we’re just kind of slotting in different parts of each episode out to them because that’s kind of what they’re specialized in. They do a better job at that than I could do. And then using kind of the three of us, and I’m overseeing the team, we put everything together. So we listen through and edit mistakes, mix and master of the episode to the highest production quality that we can do, write the show notes, transcripts, pull quotes, make art work. I know you’ve done a few videos in the past, so editing the videos, pulling clips that we can use on social media. Just anything that we can think of to pull content from episodes that we do.

Peter: [00:17:31] And that’s a lot. I know some friends who have just recently started a podcast and they’re not doing half or a third of what we’re doing here, and I think it’s important that we get that content out there – the show notes, the transcript, and you guys – who’s the graphics guy?

Cody: [00:17:51] Zach.

Peter: [00:17:51] Everybody loves his graphics.

Cody: [00:17:54] He is an extremely talented man. I don’t know how he does it.

Peter: [00:17:57] Oh my God. Ria Grieff, who I interviewed a few weeks ago, she’s come back and still wants to keep using his graphics on stuff that she does, which is which is a testament to the work that he does. He’s a wizard in his own right.

Cody: [00:18:12] He is. He is wonderful That’s good to hear.

Peter: [00:18:14] And the other thing about your team is they’re not all in your basement, are they? [laughs]

Cody: [00:18:19] Like I said, my first few clients were all across the globe and the team is as well. Zach is here in the city with us. We went to college together, our wives are best friends, and they host their own show together. But Hayden is a few hours outside of London in the UK and Ben is near Baltimore. So we’re all kind of scattered about.

Peter: [00:18:42] And actually I tried. I was up and near him last month, two months ago. We were trying to get together. Unfortunately it didn’t work. I told him the next time I’m back in the area I was actually going to meet another member of the team face to face.

Cody: [00:18:55] Yes. Yeah that would be good. And actually I have not met Ben or Hayden in person yet. So that’s on my list as soon as I can.

Peter: [00:19:02] Wow. So you’ve got really a virtual team out there, and I know you you’re using a couple of project management tools to keep this madness that you’ve got going organized in some manner. I think Trello is what you’re using today. Right.

Cody: [00:19:18] Yes. We’ve switched to that a few months ago.

Peter: [00:19:20] And that seems to be seems to be working well. I think there has been a few hiccups, but as part of that I think a lot of people think that the podcast is, one, live, and in most cases it’s not. And, two, I think the other thing – the myth is well it’s done that week. Like it’s all recorded on a Monday or Tuesday and it’s published on a Friday or Saturday, or the following week. And when we get together and one of the first things you told me that I needed to do is have two months of content in the can.

Cody: [00:19:56] Yes. That’s the best way to go about it because the amount of time it takes to turn around an episode, and then times the amount of shows that we’re working on that all have an episode every week, it just makes everyone’s lives easier to be you know two weeks minimum, but much more further in advance.

Peter: [00:20:12] And just as full transparency, due to scheduling and some unforeseen notices, this episode is actually going up I think on Monday. So this will be one of the shortest that… I’ve turned into one of those clients! And I don’t know how I did it.

Cody: [00:20:29] I remember when we first started editing some of your shows you had like 25 interviews already done way ahead of time, which was awesome. So we’ll forgive you for this one.

Peter: [00:20:39] That was great and all of a sudden life got in the way and I looked up and I went oh I’m only a month there, and then because of scheduling I interviewed Jason Michaels this morning and I was supposed to interview him last week. And that day I lost all Internet, phone, everything for the entire day. But I’m getting back on the wagon. I’ll get us back out there at least two to three two to three months in the can and keep everything in play.

Cody: [00:21:08] Yeah it goes quick, Right?

Peter: [00:21:11] It really does, because just seems like a new episode put out and the next thing you know I blink and oh it’s next Monday.

Cody: [00:21:19] Time to record.

Peter: [00:21:19] And then on Mondays I’ll get up at 6 o’clock and start that process from my end, when I’m in town, and starting to promote the podcast on all of my social media, which is something that I chose. Let me ask you this advice: I’ve chosen not to… I was doing a weekly email to my iTunes subscribers, who are in my database. So I’ve got a weekly mail out there and I would bundle it up with when I would put my newsletter out there. I bundled the episode into that. But email has just become so overused that I decided to not e-mail my database on a weekly thing. I just market all of my content out there on social media and relieve them from the stress of the e-mail. But in my monthly newsletter, I include all the back episodes and links that they can go and listen to.

Cody: [00:22:24] Right. So it’s always there if they need it.

Peter: [00:22:27] Right. Because I don’t know about you, but I get a ton of e-mail and some of the stuff I just don’t even think anymore and I just delete. And I know that’s happening to me. If somebody is getting something at least once a week or twice a week, they’re not paying that close attention versus oh it’s that monthly e-mail. Maybe they’re more inclined to open it, and I’m starting get some stats on that click through and open rate.

Cody: [00:22:47] Right. Yeah I mean if you already have that kind of rate established with what you’re already putting out then adding a blast about the podcast in there I don’t think that would hurt. It’s just kind of depends on your audience. I’ve heard from from other peers that they have really good click through and open rates with their mailing list based on what industry they’re in. But you know I’m a bad person to ask about this because I see e-mails come through all the time and, unless it’s somebody that I know or recognize, I’m just kind of deleting all of them. Even if I signed up for some. I’m like unsubscribing to them just because it’s just so much a clogging up really quickly.

Peter: [00:23:20] Yeah I completely agree, and I even think to the point that even when people subscribe – just like they subscribe to your newsletter or whatever – after a while, they’re not picking it up, reading it, and looking at it; they’re not find any value in it and they’re just getting rid of it… But now they’ve also got three or four emails in that string. So I’m just kind of focusing on trying to get the word out on social media. And that leads me into a question that’s been asked me a lot: How long is a podcast?

Cody: [00:23:51] As long as you want it to be.

Peter: [00:23:53] Early on I heard this stat: the shorter the better; 20 to 30 minutes and no more than that.

Cody: [00:24:01] [laughs] How many other stats and myths and things have you heard online from all the gurus?

Peter: [00:24:06] Well yeah. 73 percent of all statistics are made up, right?

Cody: [00:24:09] Probably.

Peter: [00:24:10] I heard this from a marketing company that was doing podcasting, but then again maybe three weeks later you sent out to all of your clients the podcast from the vice president or something at Libsyn, who hosts our show, who just basically said the exact opposite of that.

Cody: [00:24:32] Exactly. Yeah. And a lot of the shows I listen to are very long. You know I’ll mention Rogan one more time, but his shows are in excess of three hours. So I don’t think it’s the length that really matters. I think it’s the content and the value of the content and how informative and engaging that is throughout the course of the episode. So if someone is finding that 20 minute episodes work better for their content I think that’s totally fine. But to make a blanket statement that all podcasts should be 20 minutes long because my show does best at 20 minutes long really doesn’t make any sense.

Peter: [00:25:06] That’s a very good point. It’s based upon the content that you have. One of my favorite long episodes is WTF by Marc Maron.

Cody: [00:25:14] Yeah yeah.

Peter: [00:25:16] My thought is anybody who can interview Bruce Springsteen face to face has my attention.

Cody: [00:25:23] And the president.

Peter: [00:25:24] That’s right. I forgot that. And the president, and oh who was the actor who recently died… younger guy. He was and Twister.

Cody: [00:25:34] Bill Paxton.

Peter: [00:25:34] Yeah he interviewed him and I went back and listened to that episode. That was a great interview. But his go about an hour, hour and a half. So I think to that point, if you’re hearing that blanket statement that a podcast should only be 20 to 30 minutes, take it with a grain of salt. Whatever fit your style the best and your content the best, and I think your interview style as well. My interview style is I get so many questions. I can just tell you the question. First you’re going to tell us a little bit about yourself and then we’re going to run from that and turn it into a conversation.

Cody: [00:26:09] Exactly.

Peter: [00:26:10] I’ve been asked to be on podcasts and I receive a list of questions beforehand and I don’t know – it’s just me. It just seems way too scripted.

Cody: [00:26:19] Right.

Peter: [00:26:20] It doesn’t feel like it flows very well.

Cody: [00:26:24] Well I mean back to the uniqueness and you know the reason podcasting is so popular. I think it’s because we have the freedom in this space to do whatever we want. So people that, if you’ve been into radio and you’re kind of over how scripted things can get and how formal or you know censored or whatever that some of those traditional media outlets can be, then you like to hear more unstructured conversation. You like to feel like you’re just hanging out with some people in a room and chatting about marketing or chatting about Star Wars or whatever it is. So I think that’s one of the best aspects of our space, and to try to restrict it and like structure it based around a few questions might work based on the show. But a lot of times I feel that’s just short sighted.

Peter: [00:27:11] I tend to agree. Because you want more of a conversation, even if you’re not even interviewing If you’re talking on a subject, you’re not reading it from a script. You’ve got some bullet points in your head, you have some bullet points on your sheet, and you’re just having that conversation.

Cody: [00:27:28] Right.

Peter: [00:27:29] You mentioned Star Wars. Do you know any good Star Wars podcast episodes that are out there?

Cody: [00:27:35] [laughs] I know a few.

Peter: [00:27:36] Can you share any of those with us? Because I know I’ve got to have some Star Wars fans out in my audience.

Cody: [00:27:45] Yeah absolutely. So I mentioned once I got into the space I started off by recording my own show with my buddy. So we started that in 2014. It’s called Roque Squadron podcast and we sit around, have a few beers, and talk about what’s going on in the Star Wars world. And we are actually on a summer hiatus at the moment. So no new episodes for the past month or so, but there’s a pretty big catalog out there. I think we were up to about 108 before we took a pause, over the course of a few years, so feel free to check that out. It’s very raw, uncensored. Just chatting – so beware. [laughs]

Peter: [00:28:24] [laughs] So that begs the question: why the hiatus? And the reason why I’m asking is I have a friend, Rik Roberts, who has a podcast, School of Laughs, and he’s been doing it for about a couple of years. But then he decided to change his format and, instead of every week, it started going every other week because he wanted to accomplish some other goals on finishing a couple of books. And that’s why he kind of went on a slower path. If you don’t mind me asking, what was the purpose of the hiatus?

Cody: [00:28:59] So my co-host and best friend, Paul, got a job promotion and he’s actually moving out of the city of Columbus. So we’re trying to figure out how we want to set up the recordings now that he’s going to be out of the city. You know we’ve we always done things with the two of us, at least, in the room together. We’re in house and we might have a guest through Skype, but we’re always together. We’ve been doing video and the show really relies on kind of that interaction between between me and him. So we’re trying to do some tests and see how it’s going to work now that we’re doing things over Skype or something like that and trying to figure out the best way before we before we come back. Basically we want to just have the plan in place – maybe do a little bit of a rebrand; maybe we’ll do Season 4 of the show or something and then come back strong.

Peter: [00:29:48] OK. That’s good. Rebranding. So have you had any podcasts that have been out there for a while and they said you know I want to take it in maybe another direction and maybe we need to rebrand this, or if all that happens is it like we stop this one brand of the podcast and we have come to an end and then we start a whole new podcast and move forward?

Cody: [00:30:12] Usually what’s happened is we’ll kind of break things out into seasons. So you know a very typical scenario is that someone kind of produced by themselves a batch of episodes. They got some traction, they got a little bit of an audience, but they realized how much work is involved or they’re not happy with the quality that they’re currently getting. So maybe they’ll come to us and they’ll say we’re going to take a pause for two months, we’re going to get ready, do some new recordings, maybe redo the logo, update the Web site, get things prepped, and then we’ll launch with season 2 and then we’ll kind of go from there.

Peter: [00:30:44] OK. That’s good information. And I think another question I hear a lot of is do you make any money on your podcast? Have you monetized it? And I think that’s an excellent question to ask but it’s hard to do. Would that be safe to say?

Cody: [00:31:08] Uh.. Yes. Not only is it hard to do, it’s not what you would think it is. I’ve seen a lot of people who see how popular podcasting is and they want to start a podcast so that they can get ads and make money from the podcast, which I always say is a short term viewpoint. It’s not how you want to go about it. It’s not going to be effective. And what’s going to happen, as I mentioned, all the iTunes updates that are coming soon to the world of podcasting – these new details analytics are literally going to let you see what parts of your show get skipped over. So now all the hosts are going to be able to see how many of their advertisements actually get fast forwarded through, and I don’t think that’s going to make the advertisers very happy because so much of that relies on we’re going to pay you X dollars for how many plays you get for this episode that our ad currently is on. So I think this is going to really disrupt things. So no idea what’s going to happen but something is definitely going to change once that comes out. So monetizing the show from day one… I try to kind of sway people away from that. I don’t think that is a good long term way to go about starting a show. I always say you want to focus on the content, you want to focus on the value, you want to make sure that you’re involved in a space that you know something about are that you’re passionate about; that you can actually like bring a good show to your audience. Ads, I think, are going away. I’m surprised they’re not gone already. I think they’re going away very quickly.

Peter: [00:32:38] So that’s interesting. What about… I hear affiliate marketing and some of his other strategies on monetizing and I assume it’s the same type of viewpoint as well.

Cody: [00:32:48] Well my advice, usually, is that you’re going to monetize your show through some other channel that isn’t actually your show. So if you’re in the business world, if you’re the best marketer in your space that you know of, then you start a show about marketing, you teach people about it, you interview other expert marketers, you do case studies about marketing companies, etc. Now you are the go-to guy or girl in that space. So now people are coming to you – you’re the expert at whatever you’re doing. And now that you have a dedicated listener base that knows you’re the expert and that trusts you, and they kind of know you a little bit from listening to the show. Now you have a potential base of warm leads that, if you have a product or service or private coaching or something that you want to offer, now all that is prepped and ready to go and then you can monetize your show through your actual business, as opposed to putting ads for a company that no one wants to listen to.

Peter: [00:33:47] Right. It’s an authority marketing – becoming that content expert to help raise that brand in order to help grow your business versus having ads and affiliate marketing and some of these other things that are out there. As we begin to wrap up, I think let’s take an opportunity to promote some of your other podcasts that you produce. Let’s give them a little bit of airtime, if you don’t mind, if you want to share a few of them.

Cody: [00:34:13] Sure. Yeah. I would love to. A milestone that just happened earlier this week: so The Balanced Blonde podcast – an awesome lifestyle, Health, and Wellness show by a blogger from L.A. named Jordan Younger – Her show just crossed a million downloads earlier this week.

Peter: [00:34:32] Woah!

Cody: [00:34:32] So that’s a huge milestone. We’re very excited about that one. Pete, obviously, your show – I can’t recommend it enough. Hayden and the crew always say that it’s one of our favorite shows that we get to work on. Launched earlier this year, we started a show called The ONE Thing, which is based around the principles of The ONE thing book by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan out of Keller-Williams in Austin, Texas. So that’s definitely one that I would recommend checking out.

Peter: [00:35:02] Give me one more that you produce, other than your own, that you would recommend to my audience.

Cody: [00:35:11] So here’s a good one: it’s called Manage to Engage. This is by Joseph Shapiro. He was originally with refound.com, if anyone is familiar with that site, along with Jonathan Raymond. But we’re working on this show and it’s all episodes that are coming from coaching calls. The purpose of the show is to focus on company culture, management strategies. What are the things that are actually going on in your business, with your team, with your employees that are affecting their productivity, affecting the culture, affecting your relationships in business? So this is one of those that I was talking about earlier where it’s not an interview so much as it is like a coaching session or like an actual one-on-one consultation that we’re kind of turning into episodes. So that’s that’s a good one and I would recommend. I think there’d be a good overlap there.

Peter: [00:35:58] So tell me about that one. So you say it’s a coaching session. So the person who’s got the podcast they’ve done this coaching session with an individual and they’ve taken that coaching session and turned that into a case study and then having a discussion on the podcast about it?

Cody: [00:36:14] Yeah that’s exactly it. Yes.

Peter: [00:36:16] Oh that’s interesting.

Cody: [00:36:18] Yeah. It’s a good way to go about it, and I think besides an actual interview style it’s interesting to kind of feel like you’re in the room with someone when they’re getting coached or when they’re having a conversation. I’ve said before, kind of like a fly on the wall as to this mentorship that’s happening back and forth between between a group of people. It’s very interesting. You just kind of get to listen in on what’s going on.

Peter: [00:36:43] Oh so you actually listen in on the conversation. So they’ve given them the rights that they could record their coaching call and have it broadcast later.

Cody: [00:36:51] Exactly.

Peter: [00:36:53] Oh wow. That’s a really interesting concept.

Cody: [00:36:57] So there’s some detailed and some in-depth information going on, which is good to hear.

Peter: [00:37:02] And what’s the name of that podcast?

Cody: [00:37:03] It’s called Manage to Engage.

Peter: [00:37:06] I’m going to add that to my list of podcasts that I listen to. One last question: Is podcasting a generational thing, from the listener’s perspective? And you’ll say we’ll find out in a few months when they release the analytics, but just anecdotal. What do you think?

Cody: [00:37:29] I don’t think so. I think, like a lot of these technologies, like Facebook and everything, you know it definitely starts skewed younger, but as it gets more popular you just can’t deny like how big it’s getting. And it’s across all genres now. I mean there’s hosts, there’s shows, there’s topics, and there’s listeners from all ranges, from all industries. It’s really all over the place.

Peter: [00:37:52] That’s cool. Because I hear a lot from my baby boomer friends “Oh that’s just a millennial thing.” I say guys, really? They may have started it, but it’s not.

Cody: [00:38:02] [laughs]

Peter: [00:38:02] Or the one that I get is “Where can I watch your podcast?” And I go Well I do have a few episodes that I have put out there on video, but primarily podcasting is from an audio perspective. It’s a little bit surprising because I have heard that, even though I’ve been doing this for a year and podcasting has been out there for a while, it’s still very much growing, and growing at a fast rate, and there’s still a lot of the population who have no idea what a podcast even is.

Cody: [00:38:33] Yeah. And I mean speaking of growth. When Apple did their press conference or their conference last week, 1000 new podcasts are added every single week. So there’s a thousand brand new shows that are popping up every week. And there were 10 billion total listens and/or downloads throughout the year 2016.

Peter: [00:38:53] Wow.

Cody: [00:38:54] So it’s definitely going up. It’s been going up since since they came out, frankly, and I don’t think it’s going anywhere. In terms of the awareness of it and how you access them, I really would like to see some sort of… I don’t know if it would be a marketing campaign or something, but a lot of people I run into maybe they’ve heard of it but they don’t know how easy it is to get to. Like when people have asked me about the shows, I’m just like pull out your phone. There’s a podcast app that’s already on your phone. You just got to click it, search up, and you can find anything that you want. So it’s growing, but it’s still not as widespread as I would like to see it.

Peter: [00:39:32] Or thought it would be.

Cody: [00:39:33] True.

Peter: [00:39:34] But podcasting really started about 10 years ago right.

Cody: [00:39:37] Yeah. Right around when the first iPod came out.

Peter: [00:39:41] Man I feel old now but ok.

Cody: [00:39:44] [laughs]

Peter: [00:39:44] Because I still have that first iPod somewhere in the house. But it has grown, as you said before. How many a day? A thousand a day?

Cody: [00:39:53] A thousand new shows per week are getting created and added to the store. Yeah.

Peter: [00:39:58] Per week. Wow.

Cody: [00:39:59] It’s pretty staggering.

Peter: [00:40:01] That is pretty staggering. And that’s good news because I love listening to them, especially when I’m in the car driving because I can consume so much information, learn so many different things, and I’m so thrilled that I stumbled upon you and your company because you guys have done an outstanding job. I tell anybody who asks me about podcasting. I give them two pieces of advice: one, do it. It’s well worth it. It’s well worth the investment. And, two, use Podcast Masters to make you look better.

Cody: [00:40:35] Well I appreciate that Pete. It’s been a pleasure working with the show. I mean a lot of us are hosts of shows or involved in other podcasts outside of what we do for our clients. So this is just what we love to do. Just fortunate that we can make it our full-time work.

Peter: [00:40:51] Cool. Well I give you all congratulations and I wish you best business in this next year, and I know you’ll help me continue to grow this podcast to reach a larger audience. And I can’t thank you enough, and thank you for taking time because I know there’s a lot of my listeners who want to learn more about podcasting. And like I said, we pulled the curtain away and we just talked to the wizard of podcasting: that’s Cody! So thank you very much again Cody.

Cody: [00:41:16] Thank you, Pete. Appreciate it.

[music]

Peter: [00:41:20] I’d like to thank Cody again for being a guest today and sharing his thoughts about podcasting. If you’re interested in starting your own podcast you can find podcast masters at PodcastMasters.net or you can email them at CodyDBoyce@gmail.com. Listen learn and learn. I have partnered with the Maryland Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute to bring an exciting new learning opportunity for accounting professionals to earn CPE credits. You can earn up to one CPE credit for each completed podcast episode purchased for only $29 through the American Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute self-study website. The podcast episodes are mobile friendly. Open your browser on your smartphone, tablet, or computer, Go to the MACPA and BLI self-study account, and listen to an episode. Take the review and final exam while you’re working out or after listening to an episode on your commute to and from work – It’s that easy! While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my website, only those purchased through the MACPA and BLI self-study Web site are eligible for CPE credit. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at www.PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic “Improv is no Joke for CPE credit” on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of earning CPE credit. Remember you can subscribe to my podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play. If you’d like to purchase an autographed copy of my book Improv is no Joke: Using Improvisation to Create Positive Results in Leadership and Life, for $14.99 with free shipping, please go to my website, PeterMargaritis.com, and you’ll see the graphic on the homepage to purchase my book. Please allow 14 days for shipping. You can also follow me on social media. You can find me on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn or Instagram. In episode 56, it is the one-year anniversary of the podcast and I interview Clarke Price, who was my very first guest last year. We have a discussion about the challenges social media is having on leadership. So thank you again for listening. Remember to use the principles of improvisation to help you adapt to a changing landscape.

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