Improv Is No Joke – Episode 66 – Karen Eddington

Karen: [00:00:00] Laughter, dealing with our pressures, building trust, being vulnerable, understanding our boundaries… like this isn’t just like a one time magic thing that we’re going to figure out. It’s a lifelong process.

Peter: [00:00:22] Welcome to Improv is no Joke podcast, where it’s all about becoming a more effective communicator by embracing the principles of improvisation. I’m your host Peter Margaritis, the self-proclaimed chief edutainment officer of my business, the Accidental Accountant. My goal is to provide you with thought provoking interviews with business leaders so you can become an effective improviser, which will lead to building stronger relationships with clients, customers, colleagues, and even your family. So let’s start to show

Peter: [00:00:54] Welcome to episode 66 and today my guest is Karen Eddington. who is the author of Understanding Self Worth, and she uses her experience in standup comedy and improv to teach laughter as a form of self-care. She has researched identity for 15 years looking for patterns and creating original solutions to help people under pressure. Her real talent is getting in a family of five in the car. What started as a research project to understand pressure now becomes an unexpected mission to heal the most universal and dangerous experiences we can have. You can watch Karen’s TEDx talk to learn more about her research: Reach a Higher Level With Laughter and Connection. Karen works with audiences to improve productivity, form stronger teams, and build community. Research-based methods focus on building strong individuals who make powerful teams with confident leadership. Her programs have been described as a hilarious reality check, while being called a speaker who can create a community and bring the room together. Karen is a funny keynote speaker with a powerful emotional range. Our discussion focuses on her research project to understand pressure, along with a discussion on the role comedy and improv had in dealing with pressure. Before you get to the interview, I’d like to talk about Listen Learn and Earn. If you’ve been listening lately, you know I have partnered with the Maryland Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute to bring an exciting new learning opportunity for accounting professionals to earn CPE credits. You can earn up to one CPE credit for each completed podcast episode purchased for only $29 through the American Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute self-study website. The podcast episodes are mobile friendly. Open your browser on your smartphone, tablet, or computer, Go to the MACPA and BLI self-study account, and listen to an episode. Take the review and final exam while you’re working out or after listening to an episode on your commute to and from work – It’s that easy! While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my website, only those purchased through the MACPA and BLI self-study Web site are eligible for CPE credit. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at www.PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic "Improv is no Joke for CPE credit" on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible way of earning CPE credit. So with that, let’s get to the interview with Karen.

Peter: [00:03:47] Karen first thank you so very much for taking time to be on my podcast. I am so looking forward to our discussion today.

Karen: [00:03:55] Oh Peter it’s going to be great. Let’s have some fun and have a good conversation.

Peter: [00:03:59] Oh I’m I’m sure we will. I will go out on a limb and say I almost guarantee they’ll be laughter throughout this interview today.

Karen: [00:04:09] Oh good. I hope so. I hope so.

Peter: [00:04:11] Not to add that initial pressure on myself or yourself. But I’m sure between the two of us and our comedic backgrounds I’m sure laughter is out there. But before you get into any of that, can you give the audience your story? Who is Karen Eddington and what’s she do?

Karen: [00:04:28] Right. So I am a researcher and a comedian. So basically I used my original data and comedy to teach the Under Pressure Project to audiences. And I do have a TEDx talk. My talk is called the connecting power of shared laughter, which kind of shows all of that. That’s what I do. Are you ready for the backstory?

Peter: [00:04:51] Oh, let’s go for it.

Karen: [00:04:52] OK here’s the whole backstory. So I have been speaking since 2003 right out of college. I did a college capstone thesis on how we feel about ourselves and interviewed about 500 students, and I just started speaking from there just kind of get pulled in to share what I’ve learned along the way. And I decided at one point that I was going to try and be funny. Oh my goodness.

Peter: [00:05:15] Hahah.

Karen: [00:05:15] And I still remember it was a Women’s Conference and I still remember like their blank stares because the very first thing I said was I’m going to tell you three things that are funny. And there were just crickets. It lit a fire because I just thought oh no this is not going well and I remember oh I remember trying to tell a joke about the drinking fountain trying to put your face in before you push the button and there were crickets again. Anyway it moved on and I did it and I I left thinking oh no how does this humor stuff work? How do you make people laugh? And from there I spent — and I failed. I just felt I felt that bomb feeling of not letting it work. And so I spent about six years after that compiling jokes in notebooks and I would watch comedians on TV and any special I could and I had like massive piles of notebooks where I would hit the pause button and say What did they just do? Why was that funny? All while I was still speaking about my research. And I have this love of laughter. Like I love it. It’s helped me get through some hard time. Sometimes I think that that laughter heals and strengthens us, when sometimes nothing else can. And so after a while I finally got the courage to go to a comedy club. I went to open mic night and I just remember thinking this is the scariest thing I’ve ever done in my life. Haha.

Peter: [00:06:43] Hahahah.

Karen: [00:06:43] I remember I did my set and the thing is nobody laughed.

Peter: [00:06:48] Yuuup.

Karen: [00:06:48] Except the drunk guy, and he actually he laughed at all the wrong time.

Peter: [00:06:53] Hahaha.

Karen: [00:06:53] So I remember once again like– my husband went with me– and we got in the car after and I said What am I doing? Why am I doing this? And you know it’s funny is that living like my worst fear and living that failure is what gave me the courage to keep going. And what I did is I left. I just thought you know if this is my low, if I can survive this, I can survive this again. I left the shadow of the open mic nights and decided to do my own show. So I did. I rented out… well I didn’t rent it out. I had a connection where I got in the auditorium at the high school and just called all my friends and family and said hey I’m going to be a comedian.

Peter: [00:07:36] Haha!

Karen: [00:07:37] So I need your support. And they showed up and they supported me and we had some laughs. Granted it was a little bit bumpy but I started doing my own shows. So along the way I’d done all of my research. I picked up another research project called the Under Pressure Project. This was about nine years ago and this is a lot of information. We’ll catch up to the future here in just a second.

Peter: [00:08:04] No worries.

Karen: [00:08:04] Okay good. I wanted to know the biggest pressure, and it started with students, that students were facing, and I wanted to know more specifically their solutions that they had to get through. And I ended up with a massive pile of about 500 surveys that had open-ended questions on them. And so here I was, I’m a researcher, I’m looking at this information, I’m trying to find patterns. So I I just started looking at what they had said and their responses. And it ended up that their biggest pressure– I know they said things like peer pressure and drug abuse and other such things. But their biggest pressure was achievement based, and this fascinates me because it’s so applicable to all of us today, even. But their biggest solution for getting through is to develop a support network. So this is actually significant. This is about eight years ago. Very significant because I can’t stop looking for patterns. All while I’m doing my comedy on the side, I’m looking for patterns in my professional networking meetings. I’m looking for patterns in neighborhoods and gossip and all these things. And I started to see one common thing in every one of those situations with adults, And then back to the students, and I went back to the Under Pressure project and I noticed something: that there was one thing that we all had in common, and I call it the most probably universal and dangerous experience we can have and that is mental isolation: The times we feel alone in our mind; somehow we’re diminished, flawed, or excluded. And so this now is kind of the Under Pressure project. As time has gone on and I’ve kind of figured out comedy a bit, I’ve been able to combine it. I’ve been able to bring in comedy to help us heal pressure, but right now I function under the under pressure project and so we heal pressures within comedy, but we also your mental isolation: helping people not feel so alone; Helping people feel like they’re part of a community. So that gives you a lot of information to work with, but that is kind of the rundown of what I’ve done.

Peter: [00:10:16] Wow wow wow, again.

Karen: [00:10:23] I’m tired. I’ve been busy and I’m tired. Hahaha.

Peter: [00:10:24] I’m exhausted! What are you, the Energizer Bunny? But I have met you, as I told everybody, and you did a wonderful session on misdirection at NSA influence and breakout sessions. So you are funny, and to even do a breakout session at NSA on the topic of funny, and before you started you had some heavy hitters in that room and I’m going I’m not sure I’d be able to stand up there with them in the audience critiquing me. But you’re smart. You recruited them to help be part of your presentation, which I thought was absolutely brilliant.

Karen: [00:11:02] Oh,thanks, yeah. It’s all about creating a community. And I’m not going to lie: my knees were shaking a little bit. I was nervous but it felt right and it felt good and I loved it. Let’s share. Let’s create a community.

Peter: [00:11:15] I love the concept of creating that community to help deliver information, but I’m also now thinking about this Under Pressure project. You said the one thing that we all share is that isolation time and I had.

Karen: [00:11:30] Right. Well have you ever been surrounded by people and still felt alone, or even– I’ve been to like my NSA chapter meeting before and you walk into that room and people are putting on their best, like they got their smiles and they’re like hi how are you. I’m successful. And sometimes we’re not talking about the real things. We’re not talking about, oh I don’t know, the struggles, our fears, our failure, our efforts. And so that’s kind of where the mental isolation comes in. Sometimes we’re in those professional moments and we still feel somehow like we’re alone. We’re around all these people but somehow we’re still somehow diminished, flawed, or excluded, and that’s where that idea comes in because it’s a universal experience.

Peter: [00:12:24] So this question: Did you attend the gala at NSA?

Karen: [00:12:31] No, I wasn’t at that one, but I’ve been to them before.

Peter: [00:12:34] So to make sure I understand… because I walk into– I’ve gotten much more comfortable with my chapter. But when I walk into national I think I’m experiencing this vulnerability that you know… everybody’s smiling and we know a lot of people and you know you might be kind of new, but Oh Bruce… he got inducted into the Hall of Fame and his acceptance speech was about not about him, but about everybody in the audience, and it kind of took a little bit of a key from Marilyn Sherman about you know the leadership in the front row that basically you all can do this – you just need some help. You need in essence to kind of build that community, but you need to come up here in front; you to introduce yourself, and not be intimidated. Which I thought was a really interesting message because I believe I’m not the only one there that’s feeling this. And I assume a lot of other newbies per se… You know we put on a good face but that talk that’s in our head– the fears and everything that’s going on. I’m not… I don’t… and I’ve been to about four or five conventions. I don’t think that’s really, to any depth, being addressed .

Karen: [00:13:57] Yeah. I think that’s why we need to talk about more, and I live talking– and I love what you said: you need to make the same effort and not be intimidated. Because somebody just sharing that with us that juices have that mental isolation, But I also love combating this using kind of a laughter approach. I call it shared laughter. It’s those moments where we’re connected together like if you can do it, I can do. And to me that’s what shared laughter is: it’s just any moment where we’re connecting as humans and we’re chuckling together, we’re connecting together, and like you can do it and I can do it because you can do it — you know it’s just that connected feeling. So I don’t know that’s just another thought for you.

Peter: [00:14:37] So how do you how do you get the shared laughter? Is it you get the shared laughter within the community that you build and you use laughter to help deal with some of these fears and demons and things are going on?

Karen: [00:14:50] Yes! So I can give you some examples. So I have a friend… I feel so connected every time I think of this story. I have a friend who was at a really high end party and she dished up this beautiful piece of cheesecake. She loves cheesecake. But there were a dozen people all around her too and she went and took a bite and discovered that it was Brie. It was like pungent cheese and it wasn’t what she was expecting it to be. And I love it because she kept telling me how she felt in this moment, and to me this is what shared laughter is. Like I ate the whole thing so that everyone in the room thought that’s what I meant to do.

Peter: [00:15:31] Haha.

Karen: [00:15:31] And I asked like did you even get a cracker? And she said I didn’t even wash it down with a cracker! And to me it’s about connecting over like our flaws or our fears or our failure or our effort. But those times those things aren’t going right, or the times we’re working through things. So to me that’s what shared laughter is: it’s sitting down and being a little more open with someone about some of the things that you’re experiencing, that you’re feeling, so that you don’t feel quite so alone; you feel like you can do this. Because if I go back to that Under Pressure project, you realize that that solution really… if you develop a support network, that is one of the top things that can pull you through. I love having that support network, or people who are connected and saying if you can do it, I can do it. I’m repeating it, but it’s so important: if you can do it, I can do it.

Peter: [00:16:27] So in this shared laughter, when you told the story the first time you did stand up and you are crickets.

Karen: [00:16:34] Oh yeah!

Peter: [00:16:36] We shared in that laughter because I remember the first time I did it and I heard crickets as well. And I remember getting off the stage going Why did I ever want to even think about doing this? This is insane.

Karen: [00:16:51] Oh no! Hahaha. Yes!

Peter: [00:16:51] But then the next day I went, heck, I’m gonna go try it again!

Karen: [00:16:55] Yes!

Peter: [00:16:55] And I’m not going… I’m not gonna let this defeat me. And I still heard crickets again. But I do applaud you, to kind of back up for a sec. I do applaud you for the study in comedy that you have done is to take jokes, Break them down, and see what is similar: looking for those patterns. I think that’s one of the reasons why your session went so well, and I think just for anybody. I sometimes– I don’t even think about patterns and this conversation has made me stop and think I need to start looking at more patterns to look for that commonality. But that’s not part of my DNA. But I need to turn that into part of my DNA. So I… you are a researcher. By far, you are a better researcher than I could ever think about being.

Karen: [00:17:49] Well I think that’s good, and that’s why we can make good teams in the world here because I sometimes feel like I’m very good at like being on the spot funny, like with improv. I’ve learned so much from improv as well. So anytime I see someone going through that like it’s cool to share in each other’s strength. But I’ve learned I learn what makes someone laugh, and one of the biggest kickers for me that turned things around at the Comedy Club is understanding what misdirection is. Like you can’t just get up there and be sarcastic and be like I hate cheese or whatever – you need to apply like a technique to it. And once I figured out the technique, it changed everything. But for me, misdirection is about the ability to provide like this thought-shifting experience for your audience in the clearest words possible. So really what we’re doing is just… we’re creating a diversion, like we’re actually like crafting this experience, sometimes in sentences, like using assumptions or giving the wrong answer, to lead people to think one thing when you really know you’re going to kind of share something different. And once I started doing that with jokes, it made a difference. So I’m a mom comedian. Let me see if I got an example off the top of my head… This is one of my favorites, just because it’s my life. I have three kids. So but like before I had kids I could actually go on vacation. Now I have to pack for five people, and that’s just one to go to the post office.

Peter: [00:19:16] Hahaha.

Karen: [00:19:16] And we’re analyzing humor, again, but it’s hard to laugh when you’re analyzing it, but what I do is I… and it’s easier to write backwards. If I knew I knew I was packing — and that goes on and more tags and such to it — But if I knew where I was going with it, it was so much easier to work backwards and write this assumption like we’re going on vacation, when really I’m surprising them. So once I figured out misdirection, it changed so much for me and it made all the difference to realize that there’s this technique to it and I loved it.

Peter: [00:19:48] Yeah I do love misdirection, and you taught the the the rule of threes, which is a very powerful way and in misdirection, which got me to think one day I said the one thing that we all have in common is that we all have a brain, and our brains are made up of neurons protons and morons.

Karen: [00:20:11] Hahahaha. Good.

Peter: [00:20:11] So you know but it’s another one of those things I think you know whether you are a speaker or not or you want to be a presenter, because humor goes a long way and making people connecting with people making people laugh. It stimulates the brain. It helps us to remember things. I think the more that we can use humor, the more likelihood that whatever message we are trying to deliver will stick. And your core… and we’re talking you know there’s a difference between humor and jokes. I look at a joke as a priest a rabbi and Bill Clinton walk into a bar. You’re offending the priests and the rabbis here, and humor it’s it’s a lot of– especially if it’s self-deprecating, goes a long way in helping people remember. So you can take any topic out there, and if you can free some type of humor around, the likelihood people will remember dramatically increases. And to your to other point that you said humor does help relieve stress. There is health benefits in humor. I mean when I think about the movie that was based on real life experience: Patch Adams that Robin Williams starred in. Humor heals.

Karen: [00:21:31] Right. Well I just think humor also helps us snap present. You have to be present to laugh and we’re not off wandering. Sometimes I think when we’re under so much pressure too, as our minds are everywhere. We’ve got this worry grating on us, but if we’re laughing it snaps us present, and sometimes it can take you out of yourself. Kind of like watching a movie like when you’re going to the movie theater you take a break for a minute. And so when you laugh you’re taking a break and you’re laughing, it makes a big difference. Like you said, it helps people remember things. But it also provides this experience for where we could take a break and we’re also present. So it’s good stuff.

Peter: [00:22:10] OK so you’re using the word present. Now let me go back to you say you’ve done improv and you know that I’ve done some improv.

Karen: [00:22:16] Yeah.

Peter: [00:22:17] So what have you learned from improv that that helps in this situation?

Karen: [00:22:21] Oh it’s so good! OK. I was saying earlier I know spur of the moment isn’t necessarily one of my stronger talents. I usually can’t. I usually have to write them in it before a joke will come out. So I took part of kind of the experience. After the comedy club I started taking improv classes and I loved it. Oh I loved it so much because I learned I learned– I learned to chill out.

Peter: [00:22:46] Hahaha.

Karen: [00:22:46] I learned that I have time when I’m on stage. You know how if you’re ever on stage speaking it’s like one second is like 30 seconds in your mind. Now there’s this time change. I’ve learned that I have time on stage. One of the things that I love most about improv was the line games. So basically they would have everyone doing it line up in one line, and they would throw out a scenario like Hey waiter like Hey waiter there’s something in our soup and you have to come by, on the spot, write a joke about what’s in the soup. And they said– they take suggestions from the audience, so they would shout out like a shoe. And so what they taught me was to list build and that has made all the difference. I know it’s just gathering data, but I feel like one of my most powerful creative skills, especially when I’m doing comedy, is the ability to lift; the ability to make some connections here. So even done like you said… they said shoe and I just think about all the things that are associated with shoes like laces smells bowling soles. Like I just go through those things. And so when they do we’ll do a Hey waiter joke like I would stand up there and say oh I’m so sorry from the bottom of my soul.

Peter: [00:24:02] Awww.

Karen: [00:24:02] And that is a bad joke. Oh, I got an aww. Really like it’s not a great joke. Haha. But one of the things I also learned was how to stand onstage and love what you are doing. If you… and you say that line with confidence, like I’m sorry from the bottom of my soul. If you can just stand up there and love what you are doing, the audience will love what you… too . And that helped me get over like my bad jokes or my fear of like what is this… Is it going to turn out right? Because I’ve learned sometimes our crowd doesn’t laugh for a couple of reasons. They don’t laugh if they’re worried for you. You have to show them you belong on stage, and you have to love your bad jokes. And you can use saver lines to show them they’re OK, even if they’re not laughing because crowds– I feel like they respond to confidence. And if you’re– sometimes if you’re your unaddressed insecurities make an audience want to protect you and not laugh with you. So if you can address those with some confidence, it makes a big difference. So there’s one I’m sure I just talked a lot. What do you…

Peter: [00:25:13] I love the concept of you know the ability to think on your feet within probability, accept what the other person says, and add on to it – the concept of yes and. You were talking about presence but I think through all of that the one thing that’s taught me is, more than anything else, is about listening.

Karen: [00:25:34] Ohhh Good. That’s good.

Peter: [00:25:36] Listening to what the other person says, and then having a little pause or moment just to process and then either asking the question, pushing the conversation forward, but not using these words of But and No because those just evoke emotion, and then things get derailed. But if we accept somebody’s idea and built onto it, you never know what will happen with it, and that’s the whole you know the Hey waiter there’s a shoe in my soup. And the person who might be the second person to follow up on that has to accept there’s a shoe in the soup and go through very rapidly through a list and go well just don’t get the laces stuck in your teeth and you’ll be ok.

Karen: [00:26:18] Ahah! Or that stinks. That’s another one for you.

Peter: [00:26:22] Oh Yeah. Or don’t let the odor eaters eat your soup. So I mean there’s just millions of them. But yeah it– But it also taught me and you said this It’s OK to fail, because we we do fail. We tell a bad joke, we tell a bad analogy, that’s OK. It is not life or death. There are saver lines or like you know that really sounded great in my head or my dogs laughed at it or whatever, and just move forward and be fearless.

Karen: [00:26:54] And that’s such a key because I’ve seen I’ve seen speakers on stage before where like everything went wrong technically, like their AV went out, and the way that they handled failure was the funniest thing I have ever seen. Because of that that fearless feeling, like I’m OK up here and let’s have fun up here and that feeling is so fun. Even when you’re in an audience that you see all these things going on, but like it creates this experience you have together. But like failure… I even think of like Johnny Carson when his jokes when it hit. Or even when I see Jimmy Fallon sometimes too. Like if they don’t hit… their confidence and their fearlessness make it so it’s still like one of the coolest jokes of the night by the way they handle it. So I love that. That helps us get over fear like if you’re OK on stage, the audience is ok, and they’ll laugh at you and have fun with you.

Peter: [00:27:50] Yes. So you also said something that once you start taking improv you began to chill out.

Karen: [00:27:58] Yes! hahah.

Peter: [00:27:59] I’ve taken a lot of classes. I continue when I get a chance to go to Chicago Second City take take more classes, but the more that I’ve applied improv principles into my life… I’m not under as much pressure — to tie this back to your project — as I was prior to… because I used to get upset at things that I would have no control over. And I learned through improv… improv provides clarity in very chaotic situations. And I look at those chaotic situations… are those things I can’t control? So I don’t get worried about them anymore. Like why my plane has been diverted to Baltimore from D.C. I have no control over that. So I’m not going get upset about that. I’m going to find a solution and move forward.

Karen: [00:28:44] Good. Oh that’s good stuff. I feel like I should be taking notes right now. hahah. This is like a rich conversation. I like it.

Peter: [00:28:53] And you know the example I share with audiences about my mother, and I know she’ll probably listen as podcast, I’m sorry. There was a time we were driving in South Florida and we get stuck in a traffic jam and we had to be somewhere. And my sweet little mother turned into the salty mouth sailor, and I went Ma what what what what what did you learn those words from? She said Well you taught me… well She was probably right about that.

Karen: [00:29:18] Hahaha.

Peter: [00:29:18] But why are you losing your mind? We can’t go forward, we can’t go back. We have a cell phone. We’ll call and tell them we’re late. But there’s no reason to get upset about it. And you know she said Well how did you become so smart? I kind of told her about the improv and this is part of my my book coming out, and I said mom what so you can say we never talk. So let’s have a conversation. OK you might be right Son, what you want to talk about? I said can you loan me ten thousand dollars?

Karen: [00:29:49] Hahaha.

Peter: [00:29:49] That wasn’t what she wanted to hear but it made her laugh. But I think we get caught up part of this under this pressure because we focus on things that we have no control over that drive us insane. If we just focus on the things that we do have control over… and that’s what improv has taught me.

Karen: [00:30:07] Yes I like that a lot. It reminded me. I don’t know if — this is a whole different experience but I think about like work life balance situations too. And the more pressure that we go through and how you apply to our everyday life. So I think work life balance is kind of funny. I think it’s like walking a tightrope over boiling lava because there’s no there’s no survival. You just.. there’s no balance – you just survive. There was one time I was asked to do a radio show interview on a day my kids were home from school and I thought you know what? We’re going to make a day of this. I’m going to have fun. I’m going to be with my family and be a professional at the same time. And so by the time I loaded everyone in the car we stopped, we had to find someone’s shoe, I had to get someone to the bathroom, but by then we lost another shoe… and we get to the car, And by this time go the bathroom but we don’t stop we’ve got to keep going – we’ve got to go on the road! So we get on the road and at the time she was six years old and I like to call her rainbow bright she’s sparkly. She threw up. She got carsick and threw up all over the back seat while I was trying to get to this radio show interview. So we veered through like four lanes, we were in the carpool lane — Obviously we qualified — and we zoomed over and we went into Target. And I thought OK. And I realized at the same time that I had forgotten the stroller and my little… he was two at the time. We’d like to call him the flying squirrel because he must be contained at all times. So my little flying squirrel I realized we need to get a stroller. I thought this is a solution. We can do this. I can’t control all this, but we can do this. I kind of mindset that I’m trying to survive this terrible ordeal. So we clean up the back of the car. Use anything I can find. I grab like an old insurance card because that’s what I’ve got the glove box. We clean up. We go inside and we buy the stroller, buy new clothes. We get back to the car. I realize we left the car door open the whole entire time.

Peter: [00:32:09] Hahahaha!

Karen: [00:32:12] And so… I was worried but I realized fast that it was a pretty good theft deterrent having vomit in the air.

Peter: [00:32:21] Hahahah.

Karen: [00:32:22] I’m just glad we could air out the car. And so anyway I ended up getting lost on the way to the babysitter. I end up getting to my radio show interview and I’m a professional the whole time, and I’ve got all this pressure because I got my family thoughts are going everywhere. But I tell you I navigated that interview like Michael Phelps going for his 18th gold medal. I focused! I focused during that, and then when I was done I thought this is all downhill from here. This is just day in the life over here. Dealing with our stress everyday, trying to laughter and survive. I realized… but we got back in the car. I took the kids to the mall and I thought it’s all downhill from here. We’re going to go to the LEGO store and we go to get out the stroller. I realize it had zip ties so I’m calling for help. Anywhere I can please anyone anyone can cut off the zip ties and no one could, and my flying squirrel’s running all throughout the parking lot. Rainbow Bright’s like ohhh sparkly and I’m just panicked. So I grab all three of the kids, we go in, and I can’t get the zip ties off. By the time we finally do, the stroller had no front wheels… and so it’s just one of those days where it was one thing after another after another, and I realized like we just walked the flying squirrel in the stroller, and we popped a wheelie because the back wheels are on, through the mall, and at this point I get a client phone call, but to me I have to let it go because in these moments I have to have the same focus.

Peter: [00:33:53] Right.

Karen: [00:33:54] As when I navigate that interview. So anyway. It’s just one of those days where everything goes wrong. But I love how I look back on it and I can pull out the humor, and it was stressful at the time but I think we can survive with focus and humor. So that was a long story but it’s it’s a good one, and a good bad one. Hahah. Yep. The day we are strong with no wheels.

Peter: [00:34:21] Haha. That’s a fascinating story. I’m sitting there going. So by the end of the day after day like that the only way to really unwind was with wine, or some type of adult beverage.

Karen: [00:34:36] There you go. I actually don’t drink so I swallow it down with some water or chocolate. But, Yes, that is definitely the way people think. Like, phew, We’ve got to unwind after this. Yes.

Peter: [00:34:49] Well in that story you said a couple of things. You said focus, and the ability to be focused, present, in the moment, all the time listening to the environment around you, really helped you not freak out and panic. Because I think a lot of people would. I think some people would even say I can’t do the interview now. This is just way too much for me to handle. And I give you a lot of kudos for being able to compartmentalize, separate, and then get to the interview and be not worried about what just happened, not worried about the vomit, and all of that, and sit there and do the interview very professionally. And then when it’s all said and done… okay, got to go back to that other type of reality that I’m dealing with that you know… And then I have to get over those other hurdles.

Karen: [00:35:43] Thanks, and if I can add something back to this concept of shared laughter. How we’re only like smiling around people and putting on our perfect front. When I was actually in the interview, I brought it up because sometimes… Sometimes I think we need to connect more over, I keep saying, our flaws, our fears, our failures, our effort – the things that are going wrong. And sometimes I think we’re going to have to be mindful about bringing family into professional environments, but I think it’s about being a little more honest and up front about some of our struggles. Because when I was in that interview I talked about it and said Hey guess what just happened. My life’s not perfect. I think sometimes you put on these kind of perfect fronts. I like to say that I come from a perfect family, and by perfect I mean we all have a therapist. Like I’ve inherited anxiety, and I think sometimes when we have these atmospheres it just puts us up for more pressure. And so I love when we can just relax a little bit more and be real and share glimpses of the things that go on in our lives that are real. Because if I can do it you can do it, and if you can do it, I can do it.

Peter: [00:36:52] Well people– I think people are afraid to be vulnerable, for whatever it is, and you know it’s maybe the Facebook Effect. Somebody has recently told me of The Facebook Effect, that Everybody’s got this hunky dory great life and nobody’s talking about the other stuff that’s going on. So it’s that… that perennial always going on that same first day, because remember the first date we never talked about anything until we get later.

Karen: [00:37:23] Yeah, Yup.

Peter: [00:37:24] I think those of those of us who can be vulnerable to accept our our fears and our failures, and share them in a way that doesn’t bring everybody down, But share it in a way that you know I’m not like I said I’m not perfect… and just in that essence everybody in the audience goes well if she’s not perfect, and after they hear the story, everybody can relate to it. I think you become much more relatable when you are more vulnerable with your audience.

Karen: [00:37:56] That was well said. I like that. I like that. And I think boundaries are also really important as well because just because someone says How are you doesn’t mean we should emotionally overload them.

Peter: [00:38:07] Haha!

Karen: [00:38:09] Well sometimes we like to use How are you with like a greeting. We don’t even answer it. You know we never respond to that question fully. And I think it’s ok to know that that question how are you Sometimes is used as a greeting and it doesn’t mean you need to like… have poor boundaries. But yeah I think it’s OK sometimes to show glimpses because we share like our most tender things with people who are honest; people who show that they’ve earned the right to hear from you, and that’s OK, but sometimes it’s OK to show glimpses of that day. You know you were late and they threw up in the car and it just was a bad day. I think it’s OK to show glimpses of those things because it does make us real. So yes.

Peter: [00:38:57] Yeah I agree and I agree with the boundaries. I mean there’s just some things that should be kept within those boundaries and shouldn’t be shared. And there are some people who like to share everything, and you know there’s there’s a balance. There’s always a balance in all of this. I think in the right setting with the right story and showing the vulnerability, I believe it helps with connecting to whatever audience you’re speaking to, and this audience can be family. It could be an event. It could be on a phone call. I think it goes a long long long way of helping connect with somebody else. I think that’s a big challenge that we all have in business today is how do we connect? How do we emotionally connect with somebody else? Because we do business with people that we trust. We don’t do business with people that we don’t trust.

Karen: [00:39:52] Yes.

Peter: [00:39:52] And there’s a whole aspect there of you know I think you share you and you connect with someone and you build that relationship, you build that trust. And everything value is built on trust, According to David Horsager, who spoke at the NSA influence session, and he was the one who wrote Trust Edge.

Karen: [00:40:16] Oh yes.

Peter: [00:40:17] It helps in building that level of trust, and as long as we have that trust we can accomplish anything. But the crazy thing is it’s so hard to build trust, but it’s so easy to lose that right.

Karen: [00:40:32] Right. And to me it’s a lifelong process, like all of this. All of this is what we talked about today. Laughter, dealing with our pressures, building trust, being vulnerable, understanding our boundaries… like this isn’t just like a one time magic thing that we’re going to figure out. It’s a life long process, but it’s OK to know that we figure this out as we go, and we do our best, and that’s good.

Peter: [00:40:58] That is good. And to that effect of thinking about you know… we’ve never… we met face to face at NSA, but prior to that we didn’t know each other and you asked the question… before we got started we were talking but I told you I knew Rick Roberts, who you knew, so just that one person helped increase that level of trust on both ends.

Karen: [00:41:24] Right! Yeah.

Peter: [00:41:27] Exactly. And after that session ended I believe I gave you my business card and said I’d love to talk to you at some time, and maybe by on my podcast. And you had agreed. I’m not sure if that would happen if there wasn’t some person or persons in the room that could validate my credibility, in order to have something done, and to take this along those lines: The more we meet people, the more we network, helps with all of that. And humor helps in that connection, and when we’re talking about shared laughter and community it helps build up our own community, our own therapy group, per se.

Karen: [00:42:06] Hahaha. Yes. Firends, with boundaries.

Peter: [00:42:11] I love that: friends with boundaries. How can how can they find you? How can they contact you?

Karen: [00:42:21] Easy enough. I’m located at KarenEddington.com. My TED talks right there on the home page as well. Or e-mail. You can e-mail me at Karen@KarenEddington.com. Reach out. I love to connect with people! So that’s great.

Peter: [00:42:36] I will put that information in the show notes as well as links to your Web site and to your TED talk. Karen I can’t thank you enough for taking time. I’ve had an absolute blast. I’ve learned a lot more than I had anticipated on learning from you, and I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me and my audience.

Karen: [00:42:58] Oh good you’re so welcome. I took notes myself. We thought this would be funny, but I thought woah this actually kind of even went to some good information so I might have to re-listen to the podcast and take a whole page of notes. So I’m so delighted to connect with you here. So thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Peter: [00:43:18] You’re welcome. And I will try to get you up on a future episode and we can go through a discussion on the techniques of misdirection. We just kind of just touched the top of it, But I’d love for you to share some of those techniques with my audience so they can build more humor into their presentations.

Karen: [00:43:39] Great. Great, we can do that.

Peter: [00:43:41] Thank you again so very much, and go see if you can rustle those three kids down and keep them all in one spot.

Karen: [00:43:50] OK. haha. Have a great day!

Peter: [00:43:55] I would like to thank Karen again for being a guest today and discussing how to better deal with pressure. She gave some great tips and helping us to manage that pressure and create a shared laughter. If you’ve been listening lately, you know that I have partnered with the Maryland Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute to bring an exciting new learning opportunity for accounting professionals to earn CPE credits. You can earn up to one CPE credit for each completed podcast episode purchased for only $29 through the American Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute self-study website. The podcast episodes are mobile friendly. Open your browser on your smartphone, tablet, or computer, Go to the MACPA and BLI self-study account, and listen to an episode. Take the review and final exam while you’re working out or after listening to an episode on your commute to and from work – It’s that easy! While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my website, only those purchased through the MACPA and BLI self-study Web site are eligible for CPE credit. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at www.PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic "Improv is no Joke for CPE credit" on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of earning CPE credit. Remember you can subscribe to my podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play. If you’d like to purchase an autographed copy of my book Improv is no Joke: Using Improvisation to Create Positive Results in Leadership and Life, for $14.99 with free shipping, please go to my website, PeterMargaritis.com, and you’ll see the graphic on the homepage to purchase my book. Please allow 14 days for shipping. You can also follow me on social media. You can find me on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn or Instagram. In episode 67, I interviewed Tom Hood, who’s the CEO of the Maryland Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute on the topics of anticipatory CPA and artificial intelligence. Thank you again for listening, and I would greatly appreciate it if you would leave her view on iTunes. It really helps gain a greater audience. Remember to use the principles of improvisation to help you better connect and communicate with those in your organization.

—

Chris: [00:00:00] The big underlying piece of what I’ve done here is tried to, A, eliminate friction. B, solve some inventory problems where I’ve got a room and I’m paying for the lights and the people and the everything and I don’t have that many people in seats. And also try to get people reconnected with each other in real life versus looking in their phones.

[music]

Peter: [00:00:30] Welcome to improv is no joke podcast. It’s all about becoming a more effective communicator by embracing the principles of improvisation. I’m your host Peter Margarita’s the self-proclaimed chief edutainment officer of my business the accidental account. My goal is to provide you with thought provoking interviews with business leaders so you can become an effective improviser which will lead to building stronger relationships with clients customers colleagues and even your family. So let’s start to show.

[music]

Peter: [00:01:01] Welcome to episode 64 and today my guest is Chris Shirer, the Founder of two companies: Madison + Fifth, a marketing agency, and JoinMyTable, a new platform for prepaid group dining created to encourage community and increase our time spent in real world conversation. She is a Pittsburgh native but has called Columbus Ohio her home for about 25 years. Chris’ professional life is about creative ideation, problem solving, and connecting people. Her personal time is spent in her home art studio and kitchen where she is observed very carefully by the rocket: her 14 pound Pomeranian lifemate. Rocket is convinced that Chris’s hidings with the scraps and just needs to know where they’re located. Our discussion focuses around her newest business, JoinMyTable, which is a fascinating and very unique concept. I’ll let Chris tell you more about this concept, but it’s about bringing communities together over dinner for some good conversation, without the use of a smartphone or tablet. This could be a group of your friends or your team from work. But the real gem here is bring in a like-minded community together to make new friends and has some good conversation. When we recorded the episode, FindYourTable was launching the very next day. She is testing the concept in Columbus, Ohio, but has plans on expanding that once some initial feedback is received and the edges are smoothed out. Before you get to the interview, I’d like to talk about Listen Learn and Earn. I have partnered with the Maryland Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute to bring an exciting new learning opportunity for accounting professionals to earn CPE credits. You can earn up to one CPE credit for each completed podcast episode purchased for only $29 through the American Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute self-study website. The podcast episodes are mobile friendly. Open your browser on your smartphone, tablet, or computer, Go to the MACPA and BLI self-study account, and listen to an episode. Take the review and final exam while you’re working out or after listening to an episode on your commute to and from work – It’s that easy! While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my website, only those purchased through the MACPA and BLI self-study Web site are eligible for CPE credit. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at www.PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic “Improv is no Joke for CPE credit” on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible way of earning CPE credit. OK with that said, Now let’s get to the interview with Chris Shirer.

[music]

Peter: [00:04:05] Chris, thank you for taking time out of your hectic schedule to spend some time with me today on my podcast.

Chris: [00:04:12] I love having breaks in the action like this because it gives me a chance to recenter and rebalance. So thank you for having me.

Peter: [00:04:19] And this conversation is long overdue because you were the one who finally pushed me across the line to start this podcast about a year and a half ago, when after you came for dinner and we had talked about the podcast (because people had talked to me about a while about it), I look to Mary I said she’s pushed me over the edge. I’m going to go for it. And I haven’t looked back since. So thank you for that.

Chris: [00:04:48] Oh I’m so glad. You know it’s really and truly it’s wonderful when people will take that initiative you know and when you encourage somebody along the path of communicating what they know for other people, it benefits… the ripple effect is amazing. So I’m really I’m glad that you took that leap and it’s gone so I can’t believe it’s been a year and a half. It’s crazy.

Peter: [00:05:11] Year and a half and we just celebrated the one year anniversary at the end of June. So I’m into I’m into the second second year this and I’ve had a blast the whole time. I had no idea what this was going to turn out to be. But it is tenfold whatever I ever anticipated it to be so thank you once again.

Chris: [00:05:31] Excellent excellent.

Peter: [00:05:33] So in preparing for today I was thinking about what we’re going to find more information out about you. And I always like doing my research, and one of my research places is this going to linkedin.

Chris: [00:05:44] That’s called cyber stalking. I just want to make sure that you understand.

Peter: [00:05:50] Hahahaha.

Chris: [00:05:50] But it’s OK. I’m OK with that.

Peter: [00:05:53] Because I’ve actually said it live that cyberstalking you, but for all the good reasons.

Chris: [00:06:00] Hahaha.

Peter: [00:06:00] And on your LinkedIn page you state that you’re an entrepreneur and devoted champion of all things food, beverage, and guest experience, and you had me at food.

Chris: [00:06:11] Hahah.

Peter: [00:06:11] Can you go into some detail on what you mean by that?

Chris: [00:06:16] You know I… when I was growing up in Pittsburgh we were always a very get everybody around the table kind of family. I remember from my very very young years my father had five siblings, and every Sunday night we would go to my grandmother’s house and she was a fabulous cook. I still to this day have recipes in a binder that she put together for me of all of her best. I called it the party. I mean that’s what I refer to it as when we were when I was growing up. It was a table just filled… They were a fortunate family. It was a very large table and it was cacophonous and fabulous and the food was wonderful and it really made an impression on me. The connection between food and getting together with people, and as I transitioned through my life, her recipes… my mother having given me my first book as a child was a little Betty Crocker cookbook for children. And I learned the basic practices of mise en place. I didn’t know that that’s what you called it when I was seven but you know getting everything in order so that you can do a really good job of moving right through the recipe and cleaning up afterwards and all the rest of that. So cooking was always a big thing for me. I loved it and I loved cooking for other people. And weirdly you know fast forward decades later I’m in this digital marketing business running an agency and one of my best and biggest clients for the last 16 years has been Cameron Mitchell restaurants, the amazing restaurants of a Columbus native who has done a phenomenal job of spreading great food all over the country. He’s now coast to coast with his Ocean Prime concept. So I watch you know 16 years of watching him run this business and having this wonderful front row seats with all these incredibly talented chefs and equally talented and amazing hospitality people led me finally to this place where there was no place to go other than to express my deep love, affection, and passion for this idea of food and gathering, and to do this startup thing. So really the intention of what I’ve landed on here comes very much on the way back to that Sunday night. Are we going to the party?

Peter: [00:08:42] Hahaha.

Chris: [00:08:43] Which was every Sunday night. To How can I make everybody get to have a party, whenever they want to? And so that that’s kind of the back story of the passion and the food piece.

Peter: [00:08:55] So JoinMyTable is the digital age that you have created, and we’re require this and this app is by the time you listen to this it will be out there live. It’s actually launching the very– tomorrow. And one of the questions I had for Chris, in creating this experience is joinmytable, because when I look at my cell phone and I look at these apps I think well they just showed up. I don’t really really put a thought on how long is it taken from inception to becoming a reality. And I thought to be an interesting question and hear your perspective on. How long has it taken? From the idea to tomorrow.

Chris: [00:09:42] Well you know the idea interestingly is five years old. It was a concept that I had that needed to be smoothed out in certain ways, and I had taken it to Cameron that long ago and said What do you think about this? And he said Oh I love this. And I guess we should share with people that what what the concept is. It has evolved to be this thing, which is a way for restaurants to allow people to find really cool off-the-menu dining experiences that they can prepay for online. Everything is included: the tip, the tax, the credit card fee. So if it says that it’s $50, that’s all you’re paying. You pay for it online, invite your friends and family, whoever, your workmates, through the application. And then show up at the restaurant and just have a great time, and you don’t have to open your wallet again. You don’t have to check. You don’t have to worry about figuring out a tip. Because there’s always that person at the table who’s like I didn’t like her. I think it’s 5 percent for the tip.

Peter: [00:10:45] Right.

Chris: [00:10:45] The agony of service life is you know I’ve got a big group. Is everybody going to play by the rules? You know. So we eliminate all of that, which is great for servers. And one of the things… the business problem that I was trying to solve with this was to make sure that restaurants were busy on nights that aren’t necessarily busy nights. Some of my participants and partners in this, the restaurants, are choosing to do these tables — is what we call them — on busy nights. But they also have the opportunity to drive additional incremental revenue straight to the bottom line on a Monday or Tuesday night, when it may not be that easy. So the servers making better revenue, the chefs on the line who you know you may have a rock star there waiting to do something really interesting, and this is a chance for them to step out, do something fun, come out to the table, talk to people, get those relationships going so that the party really has kind of a host to it. It is not just server, but it’s also the person who’s created this really interesting thing. And it can be bar chefs. I mean there’s so much going on in cocktails and you days, And in Columbus alone we have an incredible ecosystem of craft breweries and distilleries and coffee roasters and wineries popping up all over the place. There’s an unlimited supply of amazing creativity available for everybody to experience or start to get a relationship with. So back in the day, five years ago when I went to Cameron, the original concept was boy I’d really love it if I could just go somewhere and sit at a table in a restaurant that they’d set aside where I could just try the menu. And I didn’t feel funny about going by myself. So it was sort of an open community type table. And they really liked the idea about incremental revenue and not busy nights, but one piece of feedback I got when I circle back around I got busy and came back to them and said Is there anything that stuck in your head that maybe it wouldn’t work? Because these are great advisor to have. I mean they know everything about hospitality and food and operations, and they said you know people don’t like eating with strangers. And that was the only thing that we had a concern about, and I thought you know that’s interesting because I’m just gregarious and I love meeting new people and so it’s not in my head to think that other people might share a table with somebody they don’t know. So I went back to the drawing board and I thought you know we need to circle this around something. There has to be an anchor point to it, and that was going to be this should be remarkable. They should be something where even if you are seated at what we call a community table that anybody can join, there’s at least a common theme and you’re going to potentially meet people who have the same affinity for bourbon or cuisine or something like that. And then we layered in on top of that private table options. So what people can do is find an experience that they just want to have with their friends family coworkers and order it up for a specific day and time that the restaurant is willing to do it, pay in advance, get everybody invited either through the platform or you can choose your own methods (But it’s really fun to be able to see who’s coming who’s responded and manage your guest list from inside the platform), and we’ve got you know something for everybody. So if you want to meet new people, if you want to be with other people, great. If you want to just be with your close group of friends, we have that option as well.

Peter: [00:14:19] OK so this. Well you had me at Bourbon So now I’m definitely going to download the app.

Chris: [00:14:26] Oh, yay.

Peter: [00:14:27] So ocean club, or one of the restaurants… and maybe you can give us a hint on who some of those restaurants are. So they decided on a Tuesday night going to have a bourbon tasting or a wine tasting. And so the menu is already pre-planned. And so I look on the app. Oh look there’s a bourbon tasting is not too far from here is a Tuesday night and it’s going to cost everything a total is 50 bucks. And I’m in, so I go by myself, But there’s like a community table there that other people who have chimed in, and we’re sharing the experience. And I could be making two or three new friends.

Chris: [00:15:08] Exactly.

Peter: [00:15:09] Interesting. Because when I when… and maybe this was during the only conversation you had with us a while back because I thought it was I’m having dinner by myself and there’s three other seats on the table and the restaurant can basically say well this person wanted to sit. Do you mind if have dinner with you?

Chris: [00:15:30] No. Hahaha

Peter: [00:15:31] And I’m a pretty outgoing person. But there’s some time now I think I just kind of want to sit here with some Peace and quiet so…

Chris: [00:15:39] Right.

Peter: [00:15:39] I love the concept that you’ve created.

Chris: [00:15:43] Yeah. No. This is and this is exactly to the point of what Cameron’s team said to me back in the day was, if you just drop a stranger next to somebody, that doesn’t really work out that well. But if somebody goes in knowing this is a thing, there’s a theme, there’s an event to it, and it’s got you know some substance that everyone can kind of get around. Then you are going to draw people who would like to be with other people in that moment. But again the really powerful piece is this private table kind of offering where the restaurants have decided on Mondays Tuesdays Wednesdays at 6:00 or 7:00 o’clock seatings we will deliver this experience at this price and everything is included. Nobody’s got to get out their wallet once they purchase their seat online. That is incredibly powerful for them because it does so many different things on you know and inside the restaurant level and gets us back to that relationship that a lot of restaurants used to have with people, where you come in and you see somebody that you know who’s working there. And it’s not just kind of I’m ordering off the menu and whoever happens to be in the cycle that night is my guy. You’re starting to get a relationship with the kitchen and the food and the people who are in service because there are servers who are going to be really into this. And the restaurants will identify them as the great hosts for that evening for these tables. But to circle back and kind of drifted off on you so that people understand what we were talking about. You asked about how long it takes to build one of these things. And so the concept is really important and I think one of the things that I’ve learned over a few decades of being an entrepreneur and running my own business is that you don’t even bother going anywhere near building a web based application, which is what this is. We’ll turn it into an app once we’re done tweaking. But for right now it’s simple and easy and no downloads necessary of anything. You just go to joinmytable.com and you can see and buy from there. But to get to that we really needed to work out the real world business problems we were solving to make sure that it was valid; to do market research. So I think we spent an incredible amount of time. I’m going to say close to two years really digging into how can this functionally work inside a restaurant when you have a kitchen. And if you know anything about kitchens they run like Swiss watches when they’re great, and what we’re asking them to do is suddenly interrupt that flow on particular nights and times to deliver something outside of what they do, and a great kitchen and a great group will embrace it and go OK we’ll just figure it out. I mean we’ve got it’s going to stay in line with what we do and this is how we pick the things that we’ll do. And then you know that getting those problems solved first then helps you determine right now how does my part of the equation have to work for this. How do I eliminate friction for the restaurant, for the guests, for everybody in the process. And that’s really what technology has done for us. The big underlying piece of what I’ve done here is tried to, A, eliminate friction. B, solve some inventory problems where I’ve got a room and I’m paying for the lights and the people and everything and I don’t have that many people in seats. And also try to get people reconnected with each other in real life versus looking in their phones all the time here.

Peter: [00:19:14] Hahaha.

Chris: [00:19:14] So that and, truthfully, as a person who worked in technology and built over 300 Web sites for amazing clients, my largest fear as a human being is that we have a whole generation of people who have lost the art of conversation; who feel it’s less threatening to be able to hide behind personas and Facebook profiles and everything else. You know when’s the last time you saw someone post something on Facebook that was vulnerable. I mean all we’re doing ever in digital is putting out our best. You know it’s like we’re on a terminal first date with everyone we know.

Peter: [00:19:59] Hahahahaha. You’re right. We’re on the terminal first date. Hahaha.

Chris: [00:20:03] So you know we need to get back into that real world space. And I’m hoping that what we offer to people is so compelling that they’ll be like I really want to go do this thing. I want to be with you guys. And hopefully they’ll choose, we’re not going to supply it because I think that’s overreaching, but hopefully they’ll put their phones in a box in the middle of the table and let them go. You know?

Peter: [00:20:24] So is that something that well maybe you know maybe the restaurants do put a box at these tables and say feel free to put your phone in and enjoy a conversation with the people around the table.

Chris: [00:20:39] Yeah. And I think you know with all brands it has to fit in with how far the restaurant wants to go with being a part of that message now.

Peter: [00:20:50] Right right.

Chris: [00:20:50] Because a lot of… I just heard about this the other day. There is some sort of three phone rule or something that millennials in particular follow because they’re the digital generation, where before looking down at your phone if you’re in a group at a table you have to check to make sure that no more than three people are also looking at their phone.

Peter: [00:21:10] Oh really?

Chris: [00:21:11] It’s a rule of three or something so that everyone doesn’t devolve completely into just being on their phones. And I just… I don’t know. I mean when I reach back into my memory of happiness, it’s when everybody was listening to one another and hearing a funny story that you then could share with other people, and that screen time is just… it’s a little scary.

Peter: [00:21:37] It really is. And I actually I interviewed a gentleman who is a CEO of the South Carolina Association of CPAs, Chris Jenkins, who is a technology guy but he basically said the same thing. We’ve got to get back to that to communicating, and you know technology is not to be the be all end all. It’s to help us but it’s also hindering us from conversation. And I have a 17 year old son… at times I think it’s great that he doesn’t talk to me because I don’t hear sarcasm or whatever.

Chris: [00:22:12] Hahaha.

Peter: [00:22:12] I mean he’s a lot nicer when he texts versus sometimes when he talks.

Chris: [00:22:15] Hahaha.

Peter: [00:22:15] But but we do need to get back to that Sunday dinner at grandma’s or that you know every other night sitting at the table and I know we’ve kind of gotten away from it. I love the concept. Now that I’m thinking about this… Is this going to be launched locally and grown nationally, or is this going to go national? How is it going to work?

Chris: [00:22:38] We really you know it’s part of the path of a lot of startups is the local first. Small, Let’s see… you know kick the tires and make sure everything’s OK and yes. So Columbus first and then outreach, and I wish I could tell you where we would go next. I think we have a lot of regional cities that are very powerful and have great chef stories in them and great food stories. Pittsburgh was just named the number one food city in the country or something by someone reputable. And Cleveland is also great. I think the weird thing about the Columbus market that I’m hoping to address through the social posting that we end up doing and other stories we end up telling is we don’t really talk about the chefs that much, and I’m really hoping that we’re able to start telling those stories very aggressively. There are some amazing food that is being created here; some amazing creativity, not just in kitchens but also in the breweries, the distilleries, the coffee roasters. There are these guys on High Street at One line coffee that are just amazing. They do fair trade. They travel all over the world. They find really amazing stuff, and it’s just it’s one of those little hub kind of places that you want to say wow where… how how did you do this? And and they do some tasting kind of event on Saturdays that people can pay for and go to and I really encourage people to reach out and look for those kind of events even if they’re not on a platform because we do have so many incredible people. And again that’s the other part of this people connection story is I would like people to start getting to know those people: the people behind these great food and beverage experiences.

Peter: [00:24:26] Yeah. That would be cool because I always liked it. You know I have every now and then in a restaurant the chef will come out and ask how is everything, and you know kind of get some feedback and wouldn’t take a whole lot of time. But it was it was nice when they did and making that connection with us. So this is going to start off in Columbus Ohio. Can you share the names of maybe some of the restaurants that are part of your program?

Chris: [00:24:56] Sure. Because by the time everybody hears the news will all have been out there so it’s not so much a secret now when everyone is listening. The Refectory came on board a very early tomorrow. Kamal Boulos is one of the greatest restaurant guys, somaliers, and marketers on the planet. I mean back in the day in 2009 he won an award for a small business of the year from the chamber or something because… you’ve got to remember those were the dog days for restaurants, particularly, of the Great Recession. He made money. He increased sales.

Peter: [00:25:34] Wow.

Chris: [00:25:35] Which is insane because he is a relationship guy. And when you go there, there are relationship things happening and remarkable things happening. I went to dinner there once they served a cuckoo egg. OK I mean come on.

Peter: [00:25:48] A Cuckoo egg?

Chris: [00:25:50] Yes. What am I going to talk about the next day when I’m sitting around people? You know I had a cuckoo egg. How did it taste? Well like an egg. But it was a cuckoo egg!

Peter: [00:25:59] Hahaha.

Chris: [00:25:59] You know I mean that it’s that kind of really amazing thinking and contemplation of the guest experience that that restaurant delivers. Cameron’s team has stepped up to the plate with The Avenue putting together a really beautiful four course meal. It’s paired really well with various things. We’ve got Paulie Gee’s pizza. This kid is amazing. He is under 30 probably like 26 I think or 27, and right out of LSU went to spend a year in New York City with Paulie Giani, who started Paulie Gee’s in Greenpoint in Brooklyn. And this guy has been voted number one pizza in New York City multiple years, and T.J. I went up there to do this tutoring. Went through a year of being underneath him and then convinced him to let him bring one of the Paulie Gees here to Columbus, and I think it was the first one outside New York City. The pizza is outstanding. He’s a great energetic force, and he’s partnered with other great purveyors here and sound like Katzinger’s. There’s a Katzinger’s pizza with their Pastrami on it. They’ve got to Ray Ray’s hog pit barbecue brisket based pizza. He does a vegan selection of pies. I mean that kind of stuff is great. I mean it’s really interesting work. We’ve got Napa Kitchen and Bar up in Dublin. They’re doing an introduction to wine tasting where you get five pours and there are menu items matched sorta family style, like the party, so that you can just really enjoy that and learn how to taste wine if you never figured that out.

Peter: [00:27:36] Anybody in Westerville?

Chris: [00:27:37] I’m trying to think of who else we’ve got… Barrel and Boar at Creekside. These guys are phenomenal and they’re doing a Low country seafood boil where you get 20 people and put them down at the table with butcher block paper and they’re going to dump out this amazing seafood. An authentic low country boil with southern sides kind of experience. So a wide range of all kinds of experiences and a five course course prize French country wine dinner with Chef Burchard. You’re not going to know what you’re going to get but he’s going to deliver it. And we also have the Whitney House involved.

Peter: [00:28:13] Oh yeah!

Chris: [00:28:13] Wonderful operator. Ian Brown, who you know used to work with Bravo Brio for 20 years, finally jumped out on his own with chef Max Avon, and chef Max is going to do another… it’s a little more intimate. It’s two to six people, as is Chef Broussard’s, two to six people. He’ll do whatever is in the pantry, Witney house style, and just deliver something amazing with paired wines. So those those are the kind of experiences, and the price ranges are going from $50 up to $150 depending on what’s involved in the preparation and service.

Peter: [00:28:45] Sounds good. I love the Whitney House. I’m a big fan of Ian and when he was at Bravo… Mary was over there a lot. He and Mary go back a long way and I got to know Ian and over the years and love the restaurant, and I’m glad I wasn’t thinking about it… we’re recording this right now, it’s about 12:45 in the afternoon, and I’m going to interview some people and we’re going to talk about food. I’m glad I went ahead and ate lunch before because I’m hungry now. Just listen to this I would be I’d be starving if I hadn’t had the foresight to eat ahead.

Chris: [00:29:24] Yeah. All these business meetings I’ve had to have are terrible. Oh no yeah. I think I picked the right thing.

Peter: [00:29:33] I think you did. I guess Whitney House might be the closest to us. We live in Westerville. Anything up in the Westerville area?

Chris: [00:29:42] Not at the moment. That round up that I just named for you was a very carefully selected because I know everybody who’s in that mix really well and understood that on the operations side I was probably going to get my best feedback and understanding of where hiccups would happen, because if the best operator can’t execute it first thing then it’s going to be a real problem and we’ve got to fix it or find a way to fix it. So at the time that we start we’re rolling out with just those and gradually starting to talk to others, and we’ll be adding to that mix. I mean I’m hoping… I have an interactive Google map of all of the potential restaurants that could accommodate this kind of thing, and there are over 200 of them in the Columbus metropolitan area.

Peter: [00:30:31] Really?

Chris: [00:30:31] Anybody could end up on this and we’re certainly going to be trying to engage people on social to tell us who do you want to be doing something, or what would you ask them to do? What’s your favorite restaurant and what kind of thing would you like to see them pull all the stops on? And we’ll follow those leads and try to make those things happen.

Peter: [00:30:51] Oh that’s cool. How are you getting the word out? I know you probably you know keep it in until it’s actually live, but once it goes live tomorrow how you are getting the Columbus community… How are you informing them?

Chris: [00:31:05] Well it’s funny because I finally put up a nice little video slideshow of a brief overview of how it works. It’s like a minute long and it had over 500 views within two days, and I wasn’t… you know I’m not a big Facebook person. I kept my list very small. But a number of people from my list then shared it down to their networks and it’s really kind of amazing that network effect. That if something really resonates with people, and I think that’s the thing that is such a good sign for us is that that level of share in a brief period of time means that this is something people think would be really cool. And and so I think it’s going to end up getting shared pretty widely pretty fast. My biggest fear and I may live to regret putting it out there before we finish the game is that we run out of inventory. We know that we have to hurry and scramble and get a bunch more restaurants on board so that we can actually sell things but.

Peter: [00:32:02] That would be a good problem to have.

Chris: [00:32:04] That would be a very good problem.

Peter: [00:32:07] Do you have a Facebook business page for your business?

Chris: [00:32:12] I do. Yes. And it can be found at Facebook.com/joinmytablefriends, which I will start aggressively upping like a post a day, starting today. It was funny. I racked it up last fall and I started doing things thinking that we were right on the eve of launch, and then we for various reasons… you when you asked about how long this take to do you never really realize. I mean there’s a rule of exponential growth in scope that everybody goes through. And I thought we would be launched by January and it just wasn’t going to happen so I stopped contributing to the channels, and I’m going to ramp them up pretty heavily. We have an Instagram channel that again is joinmytablefriends, and then our Twitter feed is me @tablefounder. So I wanted that channel to be very personal and it’s me talking directly to guests and sharing things that I think are really cool about what’s going on. And I’m hoping to make that really super personal channel, but we’ll also certainly be responding to anybody who jumps in and wants a conversation.

Peter: [00:33:19] So the Twitter handle again was.

Chris: [00:33:23] @tablefounder.

Peter: [00:33:25] I’ve just now liked your Facebook page.

Chris: [00:33:35] Thank you.

Peter: [00:33:36] I will share the posting that you did. Obviously when this comes out, I will help promote this as much as I can, and for my audience and anybody in the Columbus, Ohio, area listening to this… when you listen to this go out to findmytable.com. This to me sounds like I got to try at least once just to see just just to see what it’s like. And my biggest fear is that I will love it and I won’t be at home any more and I’ll go broke and destitute . But you know but it’s for good cause.

Chris: [00:34:14] Hahaha. It’s for a good cause. And you know what I tell you that’s another really powerful component. I mean we have lots of plans for how to grow this bigger and make it more meaningful over time, and one of them is certainly going to be building in a charitable component where I imagine your Pelatonia rider, the race here that we have in town for cancer, and you know your friends are tired after eight years of just giving either 25 bucks. What if it was built into a meal that you all share together with the rider and you were at least getting a meal?

Peter: [00:34:47] Wow.

Chris: [00:34:47] So those… we have you know I think the big intention of this business, even though it’s grounded in solving a very real very large set of operational problems, is more about serving the really big people problem that we have about connection and community. And it’s sort of like this little lure to bring people back into the party.

Peter: [00:35:17] Yes. I love how you refer back to the party was something that you created when you were seven years old.

Chris: [00:35:25] Right.

Peter: [00:35:26] And it has stuck with you ever since. And I love the fact that getting back to a community again and I mean if I if I can be a soothsayer, a fortune teller, I think this is going to blow up big time for you. I think it’s going to be bigger than you than your wildest dreams would ever take it because I just absolutely love the concept. I think the possibilities are unlimited. The relationships with restaurants with the chefs and the creativity aspect of it, and I think that’s what has me really excited about it because it’s so creative and what the community can create makes the possibilities endless.

Chris: [00:36:11] Well and I will say just to round this to your world… one of the biggest legs up that we got in this process of defining that was from BDO, the accounting firm.

Peter: [00:36:25] Oh. Yes.

Chris: [00:36:25] That is the 800 pound gorilla in the restaurant space in the United States. And their team jumped right into this and were so supportive and helping us sort of anticipate accounting level problems about you know and solve them. Come up with a streamlined way for handling these transactions so that everybody gets what they’re supposed to get and we’re staying inside sales tax lines and all the rest and that. It’s fantastic.

Peter: [00:36:51] Yeah. That’s great. I didn’t realize they were the 800 pound gorilla in the restaurant space. But yeah there’s not a better group to help guide you through all the accounting tax issues and from state local federal level. That’s awesome.

Chris: [00:37:12] Yeah. I mean once you grow out… when you’re talking about online sales, you’re into this horrible vortex because every state treats these things differently. We tax food and beverage in Ohio, Pennsylvania doesn’t. You know what happens as you grow out the software to have to handle all of those things? And there are third party tools that you can look at who will you know attach into your checkout system so that it calculates and gets all the stuff done the way it’s supposed to get. But I mean those are the kind of larger issues things that you have to have in your head and on the roadmap when you build something like this, if you do intend to go large and you can only get those anticipatory questions answered if you’re dealing with good people who really understand the world. Thank you everyone for listening!

Peter: [00:39:55] Thanks Chris. Great talking with you!

[music]

Peter: [00:40:05] I would like to thank Chris again for being a guest today and bringing JoinMyTable to Columbus, Ohio. You can tell my excitement throughout our conversation, because I want to test it out myself. Listen, learn, and learn. I have partnered with the Maryland Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute to bring an exciting new learning opportunity for accounting professionals to earn CPE credits. You can earn up to one CPE credit for each completed podcast episode purchased for only $29 through the American Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute self-study website. The podcast episodes are mobile friendly. Open your browser on your smartphone, tablet, or computer, Go to the MACPA and BLI self-study account, and listen to an episode. Take the review and final exam while you’re working out or after listening to an episode on your commute to and from work – It’s that easy! While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my website, only those purchased through the MACPA and BLI self-study Web site are eligible for CPE credit. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at www.PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic “Improv is no Joke for CPE credit” on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of earning CPE credit. Remember you can subscribe to my podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play. If you’d like to purchase an autographed copy of my book Improv is no Joke: Using Improvisation to Create Positive Results in Leadership and Life, for $14.99 with free shipping, please go to my website, PeterMargaritis.com, and you’ll see the graphic on the homepage to purchase my book. Please allow 14 days for shipping. You can also follow me on social media. You can find me on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn or Instagram. In episode 65, I interview Debbie Peterson, who is a keynote speaker, keynote trainer, and mindset expert who works with companies to increase bottom line results through greater clarity, communication, and leadership. Thank you for listening and I’d greatly appreciate it if you leave a review on iTunes. Remember to use the principles of improvisation to better connect and communicate with those in your organization and personal life.

[music]

—

Improv Is No Joke – Episode 63 – Bob Dean

Bob: [00:00:00] I believe that you do need to bring people together and have live collaboration community discussions in order to really get people engaged.

Peter: [00:00:20] Welcome to improv is no joke podcast. It’s all about becoming a more effective communicator by embracing the principles of improvisation. I’m your host Peter Margarita’s the self-proclaimed chief edutainment officer of my business the accidental account. My goal is to provide you with thought provoking interviews with business leaders so you can become an effective improviser which will lead to building stronger relationships with clients customers colleagues and even your family. So let’s start to show.

Peter: [00:00:52] Welcome to episode 63 and today my guest is Bob Dean, who is the founder of Dean learning and Talent Advisers. Bob works at the intersection of learning and development, talent management, and facilitated collaboration. Building on experience as a chief learning officer and a global talent management leader, Bob consults with companies on how to accelerate behavior change and business results from investments in people. Bob uses an innovative collaboration approach in working with clients to drive optimum results from business change projects. Bob is working as a practitioner consultant Using ThinkTank, a collaboration-as-a-service software company. By providing a collaborative structure to the way people work together, ThinkTank enables leaders to transform business processes and create a culture of collaboration, innovation, and engagement. Bob serves as a collaboration experience designer and facilitator delivering both face to face and virtual sessions for ThinkTank partners and other clients. Our conversation is framed around ThinkTank, collaboration, and an article that we wrote titled The New CPE: Collaborative Learning Experiences. Before we get to the interview, I like to talk about Listen Learn and Earn. I have partnered with the Maryland Association of CPA and the business learning institute to bring exciting new learning opportunity for accounting professionals to earn CPE credits you can earn up to one self-study CPE credit for each completed pie cast episode purchased for only $29 through the Maryland Association of CPA and the business learning institute self-study website. The podcast episodes are mobile friendly. Open your browser on your smartphone tablet or computer. Go to the Imay CPA belie self-study account and listen to an episode. Take the review and final exam while you’re working out. After listening to an episode on your commute to and from work. It’s that easy. While I also liked that improv no joke podcasts are available on my web site. Only those purchased in the CPA be self-study Web site are eligible for C-p self-study credit. You can get the detailed instructions by visiting my website at. Peter Margarita’s dot com and click on the graphic. Listen Learn and Earn improvs is no joke podcast on the home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible way of earning C-p credit. OK now let’s get to the interview with Bob Dean.

Peter: [00:03:35] Hey Bob I greatly appreciate you taking time out to be on my podcast again. Second time so thank you so very much.

Bob: [00:03:43] It’s my pleasure Peter. I’m looking forward to it. And we always have good conversation.

Peter: [00:03:48] Yes we do. You are in Episode 31. And a few weeks ago we were having you were sharing a story with me that related back to an article that we coauthored, a white paper in 2012 titled The new CPE collaborative learning experiences, and I thought it would be great for the audience to hear the story that you shared because it’s it’s quite frankly pretty amazing.

Bob: [00:04:14] Yeah sure. When we wrote the article I was really focused on my use of ThinkTank as a collaboration tool and I saw great potential for using it for learning and development. Virtual learning and development and that was five years ago. And since then as you know I’ve done a lot of virtual classroom sessions using ThinkTank which is highly interactive and in a way that is more engaging than anything I’ve seen on any other platform. But now I’ve recently had an opportunity to truly facilitate collaboration learning community with over a hundred people virtually.

Peter: [00:04:57] Wow. And before we get into the crux of the story can you explain or describe what ThinkTank is?

Bob: [00:05:06] Yeah they take is a 25 year old collaboration software that is very unique in that it was born out of research at a university. The research was on collaboration and the faculty doing the research found that there were some critical success factors to great collaboration and one of them was anonymity. And so they looked around and said well there’s nothing out there now that allows us to do anonymous collaboration. They built ThinkTank. They took it to market and it’s being used by a number of large companies globally. And I’ve been using it myself in my consulting business for the last six years.

Peter: [00:05:53] I had purchased a license and was using it and not as familiar with ThinkTank as you are. But I’ve got a working knowledge of it and I had been touting that the power of it as a collaborative learning platform and people still give me that kind of a Scooby-Doo awrrooo. Can you describe this to me. I’ve told them to go back and listen to episode 31. We talk about that as well as I’m pointing in to this episode to talk about you. You had a virtual collaboration with over 100 people?

Bob: [00:06:27] Yes. Yes, and it was for 90 minutes.

Peter: [00:06:30] OK so how did you do that? I mean I got a headache just thinking about trying to do something like that.

Bob: [00:06:36] Well it wasn’t much different from if you had a conference in a ball room in a hotel and you had a speaker who perhaps laid out some provocative ideas and questions for the group in the first 20 minutes and then they went off to break out. Now with 100 people in the hotel you would need 10 breakout rooms right. And you’d have to move people and hope that they made it there on time and have a facilitator and try to record what they were doing, and then report back. Right we’ve all seen that model right.

Peter: [00:07:12] Right.

Bob: [00:07:12] Well basically we get the equivalent of that virtually. We had a keynote upfront for about 15 or 20 minutes. The participants all listened to that and there were slides a few slides. They could type in questions if they had questions about the slides and the content. And then once that was finished we then took them into 10 virtual breakouts and these were people that were already in communities if you will. We knew what community they were a part of. The communities were all listed in ThinkTank in an activity, one activity, and everybody followed instructions, went into the right community and ThinkTank by clicking on it, and then went into the conference call break out by using their conference line. And obviously to get everybody in the right place and with 100 people you needed it to be almost perfect because you didn’t want a bunch of people saying I can’t I can’t get into my community, what’s wrong?

Peter: [00:08:21] Right.

Bob: [00:08:22] So you had to rehearse it. You had to give good instructions. And then, with fingers crossed, everybody got in the right place and there were facilitators in each of the virtual breakouts that then went another 40 minutes with community discussion and use of ThinkTank to record ideas and questions. So no flip charts needed because we recorded everything in ThinkTank.

Peter: [00:08:49] So let me think about this… so you get it in the breakout rooms and you facilitating this yourself or did you have somebody helping you?

Bob: [00:08:57] Each community so again imagine 10 communities with 10 people each up so a hundred people. Each community had a designated leader.

Peter: [00:09:07] OK.

Bob: [00:09:07] And we had had a call with the community leaders a few days before to walk them through what their role would be with a group of ten and what they would need to do in ThinkTank to get their participants to record their ideas and use ThinkTank effectively. And again it would be akin to having if you had five flip charts in a breakout room, and People were supposed to write their ideas on different flip charts. It’s basically the same thing except they were in a ThinkTank activity and they recorded their ideas and ThinkTank. But they were also able to talk. So there was a combination of verbal discussion and recording of ideas and thinking.

Peter: [00:09:51] So the demographics of this group of hundred… they were not in one location they were spread out for United States or even around the world?

Bob: [00:10:01] We had people at one hundred desktops in 100 locations.

Peter: [00:10:04] And 100 locations all coming together to… And I assume after the keynote was done when they got into the breakout sessions where were these sessions pre-populated with questions that you wanted the participants to answer?

Bob: [00:10:20] Yeah that’s a great question. We designed a ThinkTank that every right out was was pre-populated with several questions, and each break out had the same questions. So you’ll find as interesting. As the overall facilitator, once I had them in the breakout, I felt like an air traffic controller. I could actually go and look in on every breakout just by clicking on ThinkTank, and I could actually see if they were working and if they were engaged and when I could go in there and see that all 10 had activity going on it was really exciting.

Peter: [00:11:03] Was it the same activity in all 10 groups or did each of them have a specific activity?

Bob: [00:11:08] Yeah for this session they all did the same activity. They all had the same questions they were answering. Right. And so if you can imagine the facilitator says. “All right quick on the question number three. And I’d like you to take two minutes to answer the question.” So everybody’s typing all 10 people are typing in answering the question, and then he them down a few responses that he or she wanted to drill down on and because in ThinkTank you can not only have anonymity but you can also turn on name tags if you want to. We have the name tags on so you know I can see the ideas and say “Hi Jim. You have a really interesting idea. Would you speak about it to the group?” and that was all going on in the virtual conference call breakout rooms.

Peter: [00:12:01] So all this information is being captured. Now when someone’s speaking on the conference call, is that information been recorded as well typed in the ThinkTank?

Bob: [00:12:11] You can record it. You know any sophisticated conference call lines can record. But you know how that is. I don’t know that anybody’s ever going to go back and listen to those recordings.

Peter: [00:12:23] So some of the information may not be caught in this if if if somebody is not scribing it and but… So you’ve got 10 people and how many questions do they have to answer?

Bob: [00:12:36] They answered three questions. So they just moved from one to the next. We’re guided by their facilitator. And you know again this is all new. We’ve now done two of these two consecutive months in a row with 100 hundred people, and again we did this four times. So we’re talking three to four hundred people in four sections.

Peter: [00:12:58] Wow!

Bob: [00:12:59] You know I have to say, we probably found out that we don’t have enough time in the break because when we get the feedback at the end the biggest comment is need more time in break outs.

Peter: [00:13:13] Really?!

Bob: [00:13:14] Oh yeah. So what started out being 90 minutes should actually be two hours.

Peter: [00:13:20] So an extra 30 minutes would be a game changer as well.

Bob: [00:13:24] You know you can relate to this you’ve been in breakout rooms where somebody comes to the door and says you have five minutes to finish up and you’re in a really good groove. You’re like well we’re not we’re not close to being done yet. Sorry, you got five minutes and we’re reconvening. That same that same dynamic happened in ThinkTank virtually. And you know we can tell about it. I was the air traffic controller with some groups were not getting finished with all the questions.

Peter: [00:13:51] Interesting. I like using the air traffic controller analogy because I do believe in your son an air traffic controller?

Bob: [00:13:59] Yeah he he passed through the FAA Academy and I know a lot about that. And you can see all the planes converging on your airport right. Well in this case I can see all the breakout rooms. Imagine you get a big group like that. Can you imagine if you could sit in front of 10 monitors and see what’s going on in every breakout room?

Peter: [00:14:18] That would be way cool.

Bob: [00:14:20] I had that I basically had that ability. I just was only seeing what they were writing down. But I can sure tell whether they were engaged in the topic or not.

Peter: [00:14:31] And that’s one thing about about ThinkTank to the audience is the fact that everybody participates. You get everybody’s thought. Especially when they’re quote unquote invisible, nobody can tell who it is. The amount of information that can be captured on ThinkTank far exceeds what we could do in a live classroom.

Bob: [00:14:57] Yeah it was amazing and again I don’t want to make it sound like this was just taking what you might do in our conference and break out and putting it online because we can do a lot more. But one of the things that was interesting is once we returned from the breakouts and we were all back on the main conference line, we took people into another activity and you know how when you come back from break guards and you go back to your tables oftentimes you want people to report out to the main group?

Peter: [00:15:29] Right.

Bob: [00:15:30] We did that reporting out in ThinkTank as well. We had the community leaders answer a question about you know what were the biggest takeaways for your group and they just type them all in, and then we had the participants answer a different question about you know What help that they need in the overall learning solution in order to keep up the momentum. So we have different groups working on different questions and then when it was all done we did it all in the main room.

Peter: [00:16:01] That’s outstanding. I mean when you were sharing the story with me a few weeks ago I was I was mesmerized quite frankly of what you were able to do with such a large group. Because when I was introduced to ThinkTank by you this number keeps ticking in my head. You really don’t want anything over 25 people in there and when you told me and over 100 and you facilitate over 400 in a day… that just blew me away.

Bob: [00:16:27] Yeah well you know I I think ThinkTanks come a long way in the last six years I’ve been using it. And you’re right I would have been very wary of doing this many people. But one of the things about ThinkTank and you know this from using web access and go to meeting things… when you have a presenter with a hundred slides, not only is that a problem for engagement but with some platforms it may cause a performance problem in the platform. So with this ThinkTank session we only had about seven or eight slides, and because of that having 100 people on line was not a problem. It’s the slides that can really find a weigh down the performance of any virtual meeting or learning platform.

Peter: [00:17:17] Correct. Yeah. We tend to be a little bit to slide heavy where we should be know take the Abraham Lincoln approach where less is more and have more engagement, and whether it’s a virtual classroom or a live classroom.

Bob: [00:17:33] So I have to give credit to my client because they’re the ones that really pushed this and said we want to do a hundred and fifty people, and you know failure is OK. If it doesn’t work, we’ll learn something. And we ended up with a hundred because you couldn’t get everybody there but it was incredibly successful. I really… I can’t say I had any problems at all. The biggest lesson learned was I had a code leader. I was leading all the ThinkTank facilitation and then I had a colleague who handle all of the conference call line logistics. I’m glad I didn’t have to do both.

Peter: [00:18:19] Yeah that would have been a lot. So you said some of the feedback was we didn’t have enough time in the breakdowns. What were some of the other feedback the participants were giving you about the experience?

Bob: [00:18:32] Well they they just really enjoyed having to be being able to have a meeting with their community team and being able to do it virtually you know and not have to get on any airplanes, which they knew they wouldn’t have been able to do. And being able to do it where everyone got away from their work and spend 90 minutes to gather, and it was the first time of what could end up being a monthly session. So there was a lot of excitement about how well it worked. But I’ll tell you another insight I had Peter was the demographics of this group was all basically people probably between 27 and 30 years old.

Peter: [00:19:17] Okay.

Bob: [00:19:19] I was the only baby boomer.

Peter: [00:19:21] Hahaha.

Bob: [00:19:21] And they were they were all millennials. And quite frankly I haven’t done a session where I have all millennials. And it was almost like ThinkTank was just intuitively obvious to them, and nobody ended up getting lost. Nobody went into the wrong place. They just they know how to click around and they follow instructions and if they make a mistake they find their way back to the right place.

Peter: [00:19:49] Wow. Yeah. Because I know when we’ve had these things back in the day with ThinkTank with a baby boomer group. It feels like we spent too much time just on the logistics and how to get in and stuff ourselves into the meat of it. And I can and I can only assume that this group of 27 or 30 year olds were really engaged and really embrace this type of platform.

Bob: [00:20:17] No doubt they were very engaged.

Peter: [00:20:19] And I think about this from a from a big… Because you know very large client and like you said nobody had to get on a plane. Nobody had to travel. Nobody had to be away. Nobody had hotel rooms. So I would have I would assume that the cost of the platform is less than what it would cost to bring everybody together at a location to do the exact same exercise.

Bob: [00:20:42] Oh yeah in this case the client has a very cost-efficient license, and they’re able to use it almost like if they were using their own office conference or something like that. But again we’ve got people all over the country, from different parts of the world, on this. That we have some people from Europe. We have people from Latin America and Canada. So it was truly a global session.

Peter: [00:21:08] That’s cool. So. And at the end of the day, end of the session, they’re walking away because you’re providing them a report from everything that was transcribed. And these breakout sessions and the keynote in the main session. They’re getting that document correct?

Bob: [00:21:27] Yeah the client of course really values having to document because they are wanting to analyze all the input on those questions and the participants can also access it as well because this learning initiative has a learning environment where they can go to access content and other resources for the whole two year journey they’re on.

Peter: [00:21:53] So think about this and think about a conversation. I mean you see so many applications for ThinkTank within an organization and you were discussing about using ThinkTank as an onboarding process.

Bob: [00:22:09] Yes. I mean you and I when we wrote the article we immediately envisioned that a collaborative learning community the whole concept of learning through collaboration could be used with onboarding. Because there’s a famous book called The first 90 days which was written about 20 years ago, and it basically suggests that if you’re onboarding new hires or experience hires, and you don’t get them fully on board in everything they need to know (people they need to meet, resources they need to find and know where they are, things they need to learn about the company like policies and procedures and core values). You not only can’t cover all of that in a one day new hire orientation session, but even if you could they never remember it all.

Peter: [00:23:01] Right.

Bob: [00:23:02] So to be able to have a 90 day collaboration community in ThinkTank, where let’s say over a 90 day period you might have five scheduled collaboration sessions of two hours each, and then you might have some other time where there were asynchronous resources in ThinkTank that you could go and look at. This to me is a breakthrough in terms of thinking about a 90-day onboarding process. And we really envision that in our article and now I feel like if I could find a client that wants to do it I feel like I’m really ready.

Peter: [00:23:40] So because it’s critical to get somebody on board and acclimated within those first 90 days because if you don’t the probability of them leaving the organization dramatically increases. Correct?

Bob: [00:23:52] Absolutely. And not only that but they’ll start… They may even come in to work every day and they may not be as confident as they would if they learned everything they need to know in that first 90 days. And we can all relate to that because we’ve all had different jobs and we’ve all been through a poor onboarding experience and maybe a pretty good one, but most companies have trouble with this because they they try to fix the problem of onboarding new hires with a two day workshop.

Peter: [00:24:23] Right. And that that doesn’t stick. There’s got to be some follow up after that. You just just can’t cut them loose. But a lot of times they do too. Two day workshop. Two hour workshop. whatever. OK. Now go to work.

Bob: [00:24:38] I mean I have had experience with this and another large client. I’ve told you this story where we had knowledge networks established and they were in Sharepoint, and we basically created a new hire network in Sharepoint and after a two day workshop we basically gave people the link to their next 88 days, and they were going to be in in the new network. But that was all asynchronous. And although I think it was very interesting and there was a lot of good interaction, I believe that you do need to bring people together and have live collaboration community discussions in order to really get people engaged.

Peter: [00:25:22] And I remember we were talking about this when we wrote this article… as I think about that and using ThinkTank to create this collaboration vehicle I think it’s critical right now. I think ThinkTank would be a very valuable tool for companies to use in trying to deal with this new revenue recognition principle.

Bob: [00:25:57] Yeah absolutely. I mean you and I have talked about this a lot. The model for technical training on the new issue within the accounting firms and in the accounting profession… That model hasn’t really changed for 60 years. And it’s get a guru to give an update, whether they do it in a classroom or whether they do it in a virtual classroom, and they’re giving the update on the new issue right at the beginning of the process. And at the time people attend that… number one they may not be needing to implement the issue for another six months, so that the training is not just in time. And secondly, at that point that a new issue is being released, there’s very little experience in implementing it. So what really would be valuable is, let’s say on revenue recognition, a 12 month collaboration community experience where people came back once a month and they shared experiences they were having with implementation, and this can even be done in breakouts by using let’s say company size breakouts or industry breakouts. So if you are getting if you are getting a plenary session from Pete Margaritis for 30 minutes and then he said let’s break into 10 industry breakouts now. You all know what industry you’re in. And if you go to the right breakout you’re going to probably get a lot more value out of this and if you go to the wrong breakout.

Peter: [00:27:33] Right. Right. I mean this is a great tool for AICPA to put it into the learning platform to do something like that. I love that idea.

Bob: [00:27:41] Yeah I don’t and I don’t want to make people think this is all about the platform right. This is ThinkTank is an enabler, but without really good facilitation, and really a lot of confidence going in that this is going to work, then the platform itself is not going to have any magic to it without a great facilitation team.

Peter: [00:28:05] Correct. And that goes to that same that would go into a live classroom. But I think when I when I look at the two side by side and I go if I get a live group here I may not get everybody’s thoughts or ideas. I might just get a few, but ThinkTank has the ability to get all the ideas from people from everybody in that group, which makes it a much more richer experience, from a learning perspective, than just getting responses maybe from two or three people and then a live audience.

Bob: [00:28:40] Yeah. You know if we had revenue recognition as a topic and the first thing we did with a group of people who read the new pronouncement and had begun to think about implementation. If we asked them What are your questions. And we just had to type in questions one at a time, question after question. We then can take all those questions and we can cluster them into themes or buckets. And within a matter of five or 10 minutes, you’ve got hundreds of questions clustered into seven or eight buckets and you can never do that in the classroom.

Peter: [00:29:20] No. Not with any speed or accuracy or just yeah. That would be, to some degree, too much. But yeah you can’t do that. You can you can design the course the content and develop the course as you are conducting the class. It’s almost like doing the class on improv where You tell me where you want this to go, you give me the questions, and then we’re going to take that and build the rest of the day the rest of the two hours around that so we can answer your questions.

Bob: [00:29:52] Yeah absolutely. I’ve always felt, and again the same thing applies to onboarding, you know within the first 30 days you’re in a new company and you have colleagues that you met in a new hire orientation program… you’re all going your own way, you’re all walking different halls, you’re all meeting with different customers, you’re all using your computer in different ways, and you could all share your learnings and share your questions. And when you do that number one there’s a sigh of relief from people thinking “Wow I’m glad I’m not the only one who hasn’t figured that out.” And then there’s also a sigh of relief thinking I just learned seven things here today that will help make my life easier the rest of the week!

Peter: [00:30:44] Right. Right.

Bob: [00:30:46] It’s amazing that this stuff is not happening. And we read about problems with boarding programs all the time. It may be one of the most deep dark secrets in learning and development teams in all companies is it’s hard to get onboarding right. Really hard.

Peter: [00:31:06] And it’s so critical, but it is so hard to do that. That’s that’s correct. What other applications do you see ThinkTank being used on? Or do you have something coming up that you’re developing for a client that you’d like to share?

Bob: [00:31:20] Well I really believe in the power of it for virtual classroom. And again just similar to what you said earlier. I originally thought well I’m going to do a virtual classroom session as you know I do a writing course that is a very very very good course that was actually developed with a colleague 15 years ago and we did it for the classroom. But now we’re doing it with ThinkTank and that course of Initially I might have said Well 25 participants is the most we can do. But now I believe we could do 75 in a skill building course and if you think about that again you rarely would see that in a face to face environment. And people want it because they’d like to scale courses to as many people as possible. But as you know when you do that there’s no interactivity. You had 75 people in a ballroom and there’s no interactivity to speak of.

Peter: [00:32:21] Right. And Bob let me just say it’s not a very very very good course. It’s an outstanding course! I took the pilot with Bob and a group ,and I have a writing course that I teach a live audience. This thing blew me away into the interactivity, to the skill building everybody is doing. It’s a wonderful course. And I think all companies should should be using that course, quite frankly, because that’s one of the major issues most companies have is the ability for people to be able to write effectively.

Bob: [00:32:54] Yeah it is you it’s a huge issue and we’ll be pushing this out more in the in the coming year. I actually I’m glad you me this question though because there is another thing I would like to do and now that I am confidence in these ThinkTank virtual breakouts I should try this. I developed a presentation skills model over 15 years ago and it’s called the three S’s of successful presentations. I have delivered that course face to face in many companies, When I was chief learning officer and global head of learning. And I have tried it on ThinkTank but when I did it I had a small group. You know I had seven or eight people, and it was virtual. But now I think I could probably run that course for 50 people or 100 people. And I would put them into breakouts to do, and this would take longer than you know 40 minutes — It might take two hours — would be to practice their presentation skills that they just learned. So going to break breakouts and present to each other if you will, get feedback in the breakout on how you did, and then come back to the main room and ask questions. And now you’ve asked me this question I think I’m going to start working on this next. I’m going to start working on this next month because I basically have the course and it’s just it’s just a matter of designing the virtual breakouts!

Peter: [00:34:28] So I have to ask, what are the three S’s?

Bob: [00:34:31] Structure, substance, and style.

Peter: [00:34:36] I’m writing those down.

Bob: [00:34:37] Yeah I develop this based on my experience. I have a kind of a guru in each of those three areas that I’ve looked to as inspiration for presentation skills for Many years, and I just blended them all together.

Peter: [00:34:56] Nice. Nice. Well when you do get this course up and run it I’d like to sit in on the pilot.

Bob: [00:35:03] Well the other thing we could do… you and I went through an improv course together. Maybe we can figure out how to get our virtual improv course off the ground and have people going to break outs to practice.

Peter: [00:35:14] Yeah I know I think about that often and how to get that thing up and running and interactive. And now that’s… you know I have to put some more thought to it over the next… I’m getting ready go on vacation and while I’m on vacation I’ll put some thought to it because that’s when I get to do some thinking. Kind of as a wrap up the last words that you want to part on to our audience about this virtual collaboration?

Bob: [00:35:43] Yes I think I’ve been a big believer in the power of virtual collaboration communities ever since I first started using ThinkTank seven years ago. And then you and I met Tom Hood, and Tom has a point of view around learning from collaboration that is very compelling. He basically says in a world where change is happening faster and faster every week, we have to learn faster. And the way we learn faster will be learning through collaboration. It’s going to be faster than learning from experience. And I think that’s a very true statement because when people learn from experience they do have some rich learning, but they have a tough time sharing them with other people, and with ThinkTank we could learn from experience of like in the case of that revenue recognition learn from implementation experiences, but share them and ask questions about them and they have a whole group go away more excited about what they’re going to do next because of collaboration. So I think I feel like this is much nearer a reality. And I guess the thing that’s good right now is when people went into this 10 session with a hundred people and they went into virtual breakout groups… it didn’t feel that radical because we have done that in hotel ballrooms.

Peter: [00:37:17] That’s very interesting. Yeah and I agree wholeheartedly with what Tom Hood said about the way we need to learn through collaboration versus experience. And I’m aligned with you on this Bob that I think I think the platform of ThinkTank versus WebEx to some of these others leads us down into that true collaborative community. And I’m I’m looking forward to seeing how this continues to develop because like when we wrote that paper five years ago. Yeah it did seem to be almost you know kind of far fetched at the time but it came true awful quick.

Bob: [00:38:02] Yeah and for those listening to this that are worried about getting CPE, there is a way to turn on name tags in ThinkTank and have people do an interaction every 20 minutes. So we can tell if they’re present. So if that’s a big deal, you can combine collaborative learning communities with CPE compliance. It’s possible in ThinkTank.

Peter: [00:38:29] Yes it is possible. And I guess the key here is turning the name tags on verses… because there’s no back reporting that everybody logged in. But you don’t know when people do log off during the session do you? It’s not it’s not in the report is it?

Bob: [00:38:47] No you really can’t can’t can’t tell. So you know but but again in a room full of 100 people you have trouble telling if two people walk out of the room too.

Peter: [00:38:55] Right. So the name tags are critical and that in order from a compliance aspect. Well Bob I appreciate you taking time to share this information, to share this discovery with my audience. And if somebody wants to get in contact with them how can they find you?

Bob: [00:39:13] Well you can finally find me first by searching on LinkedIn for Bob Dean, but also you can e-mail me at RobertHDean@comcast.net.

Peter: [00:39:28] And Bob’s located in the Chicago area and I will leave the conversation by saying Bob’s two favorite words: Go Cubs.

Bob: [00:39:44] Yeah, we got a couple months to get back to where we need to be for the World Series this year.

Peter: [00:39:50] Bob’s a big Cub fan and he actually goes to a lot of the games. He’s going to the Cubs Cardinals game tomorrow at 3. So I wish the Cubs luck. I mean my reds are so far out of it it’s it’s just not even worth even cheering for them. But I like to loveable Cubs get back to get back to the world series again.

Bob: [00:40:12] Yeah it’ll be another great fall if they do.

Peter: [00:40:17] Hahaha. Well thanks again Bob I appreciate it.

Bob: [00:40:18] OK. Thank you.

Peter: [00:40:23] I would like to think Bob again for being a guest today and sharing his thoughts on his recent experiences with virtual collaboration and the power of ThinkTank. I have partnered with the Maryland Association of CPA and the business learning institute to bring exciting new learning opportunity for accounting professionals to earn CPE credits you can earn up to one self-study CPE credit for each completed PI cast episode purchased for only $29 through the Maryland Association of CPA and the business learning institute self-study website. The podcast episodes are mobile friendly. Open your browser on your smartphone tablet or computer. Go to the Imay CPA belie self-study account and listen to an episode. Take the review and final exam while you’re working out. After listening to an episode on your commute to and from work it’s that easy. Also like to improv no joke. Podcasts are available on my web site. Only those purchased in the CPA be self-study Web site are eligible for C-p self-study credit. You can get the detailed instructions by visiting my website at Peter Margarita’s dot com and click on the graphic. Listen Learn and Earn. Improv is no joke podcast on the home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible way of earning C-p credit. Remember you can subscribe to my podcast on iTunes ditcher and Google Play if you like to purchase a personalized signed copy of my book. Improv is no joke. Using improvisation to create positive results and leadership and in life. For fourteen ninety nine and the ship it is free. Go to my Web site and you’ll see the available now. Graphic on my home page. Just click and go to the shopping cart. In addition you can download improvs no joke audio book for fourteen ninety nine so you can listen on the go. You can follow me on social media. You can find me on Facebook by searching the accidental accountant. My Twitter handle is at P Margarita’s. You can connect with me Alington by searching my entire name and on Instagram by searching the margaritas in Episode 64. I interviewed Chris Schier who is the founder of two companies Madison and fifth a marketing agency and joined my table a new platform for prepaid group dining created to encourage community and increase our time spent and real world conversation. Thank you again for listening and I greatly appreciate it if you’d leave a review on iTunes. Remember use the principles of improvisation to help you better connect and communicate with those in your organization.

—

Patrick: [00:00:00] Anybody can talk, but not everybody can communicate with impact.

[music]

Peter: [00:00:13] Welcome to Improv is no Joke podcast, where it’s all about becoming a more effective communicator by embracing the principles of improvisation. I’m your host Peter Margaritis, the self-proclaimed chief edutainment officer of my business, the Accidental Accountant. My goal is to provide you with thought provoking interviews with business leaders so you can become an effective improviser, which will lead to building stronger relationships with clients, customers, colleagues, and even your family. So let’s start to show

[music]

Peter: [00:00:44] Welcome to episode number 58 and today my guest is Patrick Donadio, MBA, CSP, and MCC. For the past three decades, Patrick has spoken nationally and internationally and trained thousands of leaders and their teams in a variety of industries from Fortune 100 companies to associations. In his desire to help C-suite executives and all leaders grow their people, Patrick has taken his decades of experience and crafted a results-based process for his new book, Communicating with IMPACT, focused on improving communication, increasing profits, and boosting performance in less time. Patrick serves on the board of the National Speaker’s Association and is one of only four people in the world to have are both the certified speaking professional designation from the National Speakers Association and the Master Certified Coach designation from the International Coach Federation (The highest earned designations in both associations). As an educator, he has taught communications at the University of Notre Dame, the Weatherhead School of Management, the Ohio State University, and the John Glenn College of Public Affairs.

[music]

Peter: [00:02:04] Patrick welcome. I appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to be a guest on my podcast today.

Patrick: [00:02:10] Hello there Peter. How are you my friend?

Peter: [00:02:12] I’m doing wonderful. And how about yourself?

Patrick: [00:02:14] We’re doing great. Always good to talk with you.

Peter: [00:02:17] Always good. Always good to talk with you. And before we begin this interview I do want to share a story about you that really resonated with me for… Still to this day. And I don’t know if you remember this but way back when, when the NSA Ohio chapter had our meetings down at downtown Columbus at the Crown Plaza. My first time I walked in there I was a little bit intimidated – it was probably 75, 80 people in the room – and at one of the breaks you came up to me and introduced yourself and said I see you’re new and kind of tell me a little bit about yourself. And I did. You were very kind. And then after the meeting was over you stopped me and you said “do you have a one page?” And I had this… what? What’s a one page thingy? And you said Sit down. I sat that and you scoped this one page out for me on a piece of paper and gave it to me and said next meeting I want you to come to me and when you show me your one pager, and I did. I’ve never forgotten that because, I could summarize my interaction with you over the years, you’re kind, you’re helping – just as we’re going to talk about today, you want to have an impact in other people’s lives and you had a huge impact on mine. And I greatly appreciate it.

Patrick: [00:03:41] Yeah. Well thank you. You know I don’t remember that. Obviously I love helping and you know I think what we do is so critical. And people who are listening you know you don’t realize the kind of difference you can really make a great difference when all you do is just be kind and help others.

Peter: [00:03:54] And you did that. And I tell everybody that story when they ask me “Tell me about an NSA. What is it?” And I revert back to that story. My first experience, which has been a lasting experience. So I once again thank you my friend.

Patrick: [00:04:10] Well you’re welcome.

Peter: [00:04:11] So what’s going on in your life, Patrick? Anything new? Anything you’ve been working on? Anything you’d like to share?

Patrick: [00:04:18] Yeah you know it’s funny you should ask because I’ve been working on this book for about eight years now. You know every time I go to the next Speaker Association in Ohio chapter they’re going “so hey how’s that book.” Like in the sense that you’re really not writing a book are you. You’re just making that up. So finally, believe it or not, I’ve gotten the book out and it’s called Communicating with Impact. And it’s not so much about the book, Peter, it’s just about the idea of giving something to someone that they can take with them to continue the learning. Because you and I know when people come to our workshops and seminars they get some great ideas, but a lot of times either they want to go deeper or they go back to work and they forget to apply the skills that they learn. So having these resources are a great value to my clients. That’s the biggest reason I wrote the book. Not to be a best-seller, but the keep adding value.

Peter: [00:05:05] And that’s that’s a critical point because I feel the same way. In my speaking engagements or an event, we’re there, we’re doing what we do, we’re sharing our knowledge… But after that, if there’s not some tangible pieces out there that they can go to – whether it’s your book, my book, articles, listening to podcasts – then they’ll revert back. They’ll go back into that rut and they won’t change that behavior that they ultimately want to change, and keeping things like this in front of individuals I think is very important.

Patrick: [00:05:34] Well I found that for me I was teaching this topic for years and then I finally realized that people kept asking me “do you have a book?” and I’m like no. And so I realized I need to listen to my customer. If you’re listening today, the best thing you can do to really make an impact in your business is listen to your customer, and when my customer kept asking me that question I figured I better take the hint.

Peter: [00:05:55] So when you took the hint, I’m just curious – Did you have the title in mind? You had the topic in mind, but how did the first piece flush itself out.

Patrick: [00:06:09] Yeah well I’ve been teaching communication skills for 20 some years and I change the title to Communicating with Impact and I thought I want to come up with a process. And so initially I just had a five-step process, and it worked. But then I realized that’s hard to remember. So then I took my five step process and I took the word impact and I created an acronym to come up with a six-step process. Because I think, if something’s simple, people will remember it. And I also think, if people have a process, they get a much greater result. So that’s kind of how the book got started.

Peter: [00:06:42] And when you say the word process that’s the second thing that comes into my mind as it relates to you: you’re very process oriented. I remember the time that I was a coaching client of yours and you were helping me put processes and procedures into place because I had no process, nor did I have a procedure, and you’re very good about processes. And as I’ve looked through some of the materials that you have sent in advance, I just looked at it and immediately think, “That’s Patrick.” I mean this this is you. This is your brand.

Patrick: [00:07:13] Thank you. Part of that because I believe in processes. Just a quick little story: I was in Japan, 1991, as a goodwill ambassador and after about two or three weeks staying with Japanese families and eating sushi, which by the way sushi is great but I’m not a big raw fish guy. I grew up you know in the 60s when we had fish sticks. That was my kind of fish. So about the third week I was with these Japanese families and I had this one host family and I said to the young children hey listen you guys have McDonalds? Because I would really like a hamburger because I’m just kind of homesick. So we went to McDonald’s. I got the Big Mac, which was about six bucks. I don’t care. I would have paid 20. I was so happy to have some comfort food. I had the fries and the green tea shake. And as I was eating those French fries, Peter, I said wow these fries taste exactly the same as they do right here in Ohio. How can you be around the world and still get the same thing? And then I realize McDonald’s has a process to make sure that you get this consistent result, and then that’s when I got the idea: you know if I want to come back to the States I want to start creating processes because I’m not getting consistent results.

Peter: [00:08:18] Wow, that’s a great story, and what a cool way to see that vision – being in a foreign country and craving a big mac, or however you pronounce that.

Patrick: [00:08:33] The other reason I created processes, I’ll be quite frank with you Peter, is I’m not a very good structured person. And when I started my business I wasn’t making a lot of money because I didn’t have a system, and I would have little post-it notes or pieces of paper and things on index cards and realize that I forgot the follow up with this client. And I said well I’ve got to do something to get organized. So it’s really valuable for me to keep be focused to get more work done.

Peter: [00:08:59] I’m glad you don’t have your camera on and can see into my office because there’s post-it notes and index cards and stuff lying around. I digress. Let’s keep moving forward.

Patrick: [00:09:09] I was going to say so anyways I thought about this workshop, I thought I was teaching these five steps, and I thought if I can make it easier. So I came up with the word impact and that’s how I created the six keys to communicating with impact, and these six pieces are what I think, anytime you have a conversation with a prospect or you’re in front of a group making a presentation or if you’re out with a client… you know everything we do. I mean it’s amazing how much of what we do is communications. So I create this quick simple impact process, and if you’d like I can quickly give you the six keys. It’s easy to remember – you just remember the word impact you know the six keys.

Peter: [00:09:43] I’d love to hear the six keys.

Patrick: [00:09:44] Yeah. And we can go deeper into whatever you want, but here they are. They’re very easy: The I in the IMPACT model is the intention. What’s my intention for this conversation? We have an intention today. The M is the message. So how do I craft a message that’s going to help me achieve the intention I have for this communication? M is also the method, too, because you know people respond differently to different forms of communication. The P in the IMPACT is the person. So who am I communicating with and how do I adjust my communication to that particular person? So that’s the first part – I call this the planning phase of the process. Or you can think IMP – I am planning. But the IMP part is the first phase, and then the ACT is actually how do you take the process that you came up with and then you put it into action. So the A is to activate. How do I activate this message to engage me and my receiver? The C is clarify. How do you make sure that what we both sent is being communicated correctly? Because a lot of times there’s a lot of miscommunication that happens. And then the T, which you know prior to coming up with this new model I had the five steps and I stop with the C, and I realized there’s something more important that we don’t think about: how do you transform this particular interaction into the result that we actually set for ourselves? So that T is transformed. So that’s it. IMPACT: intention, message, person, active, clarify, transform. Put it all together, take about two minutes before you open your mouth, and you too can be communicating with impact.

Peter: [00:11:16] OK so I think, for the benefit of my audience, going maybe not real deep but putting some depth into each one of these little bit more because I think those who are listening, as well as myself, are intrigued by this process that you have developed.

Patrick: [00:11:34] Yeah. So we could even start at the beginning if you’re like. You know you can take me through wherever you want to go.

Peter: [00:11:38] Let’s start with the I and go all the way through.

Patrick: [00:11:41] Well the I is the intention. So I have this simple little phrase: intent before content.

Peter: [00:11:49] I like that. I like that.

Patrick: [00:11:51] Right so you and I have an intention today: we want to share some great ideas so that your listeners walk away with some tools that they could use to be better communicators. That’s my intention for our call. So no matter what I do today I want to make sure I’m giving value to our listeners because that’s my intention.

Peter: [00:12:08] OK.

Patrick: [00:12:09] Now here’s the thing, Peter: This step is so simple it takes basically 30 seconds, but I can guarantee you most people don’t take 30 seconds and ask themselves before they pick up the phone, before they go to lunch, before they make a presentation. You know why am I having this conversation? So the first step is the why. I mean to be honest – I mean do you take that 30 seconds a lot of times before you pick up a phone or send an e-mail and ask yourself why am I saying this?

Peter: [00:12:32] I will be honest with you.. Some years ago, no, I didn’t, but I’ve become more.. I’ve practiced that a lot more. Why am I making this phone call? Why am I asking this individual to be part of my podcast? I have a lot of Whys out there so I’ve become better at that.

Patrick: [00:12:48] And I tell people in the workshop you know if you left right now you’d be a better communicator. Just spend 30 seconds and ask yourself why this conversation, why this communication. So it’s a very simple step, it doesn’t take a lot of time, and it’s very easy. So I want our listeners today, as they go as we go through these six keys, think about what’s one of these things that you may not be doing that well. Maybe the first one is really I’m not spending that 30 seconds on asking myself why before I go out there to communicate. But I hope if you’re listening today, and if you’re not driving, you take out a pen and a piece of paper and see if you can pick up a couple of tips you could put in the practice tomorrow to be a better communicator, to grow your business, and to build deeper relationships.

Peter: [00:13:26] OK next is the M.

Patrick: [00:13:28] Next is the M, But let me just tell you, before we go onto the M, there’s a little formula that I created in the intention process called the laser focused intention. And basically if you just answer these questions you can actually create a really good intention. So I’m going to give it to you for a minute and see if you might want to think about how you can apply it to communication you’ve got coming up. I’m going to talk to this audience or person about whatever the topic is so that they will think, do, or feel something. So just like a little fill in the blank. So do you have anything coming up where you could maybe use it as an example where you’re going to be talking or communicating with someone about a topic and maybe Let’s talk about what you want to have happen as a result of that interaction?

Peter: [00:14:15] I’ve got a number of speaking engagements coming up. I’m going to be talking about ethics with a CPA firm coming up.

Patrick: [00:14:23] OK. That’s so good. So I’m going to be talking about ethics with a CPA firm so that they will… What do you want them to think, do, or feel?

Peter: [00:14:30] I want them to think about… we get put in situations of gray. The gray part of ethics, and I want them to be able to think, feel, remember some of the stories that we’re talking about – real life situations like Wells Fargo, like Scott London former KPMG partner. So if they’re ever in that similar situation they’ll pause before they act.

Patrick: [00:14:54] Yeah look at that. So basically in 40 seconds you’ve already crafted almost your whole presentation. That’s how powerful this first step is. So if you’re listening right now and you’ve got a potential meeting with a prospect or you happen to be going out to see a client today you know just spent 30 seconds and saying Why am I having this meeting today and what do I want my client to think, do, or feel after we’ve met? And that’s how easy their first step is.

Peter: [00:15:17] It’s simple. It’s way too simple Patrick.

Patrick: [00:15:20] You’ve got to keep it simple for me Peter.

Peter: [00:15:22] Well me too.

Patrick: [00:15:26] So number one is intent before content, the intention step. The second piece is your intent drives your content. Right. So now you know what your intention is now spend a few minutes and think about what are the pieces of the message that I want to put together. And basically you kind of did that by answering that first laser focused intention formula. So I call this message management. Right. And we communicate, as you know, really there’s three different ways we can articulate our message: you can do it verbally, you can do it nonverbally, or you could do it in writing. Right. So you got to figure out which of those particular types of methods you want to use to communicate my message.

Peter: [00:16:04] OK.

Patrick: [00:16:05] Now it’s very critical to think about what’s the right approach. I always ask people, for example, Peter, what’s your preference for communication? You prefer a phone call, an email, a text?

Peter: [00:16:16] I prefer a phone call. I prefer face-to-face. I prefer a voice.

Patrick: [00:16:20] Yes. And that’s great. What I remind people of, when your craft and your message, is it’s not just about what you like; it’s about what they like. So if you understand the concept called projection – projection means you project on to other people what you would like. So if I said Peter I think you should be a little better at being funnier. That’s because I think funny is really important. I know you’re funny. But the point is I’m projecting onto you what I think is important. Well when you’re crafting a message you have to be careful that you don’t project onto your receiver. “Oh well they’ll like email or they’ll like phone calls because I like phone calls.

Peter: [00:16:59] Ah. Got it.

Patrick: [00:16:59] So when you’re crafting your message, you think about the method and it might be you know I love phone calls but this person is a CEO. They’re not going to pick up the phone so I may have to communicate by email or text. So in the end part you want to think about the message, but you also want to think about the method.

Peter: [00:17:16] I’ve never really thought about it like that, especially from the projection point.

Patrick: [00:17:19] Yeah. So we tend to do what we like.

Peter: [00:17:21] Right.

Patrick: [00:17:22] Now I know a lot of us know the basic pieces of good communication. If anybody’s been to college or high school and had a speech class we know the three parts: opening, body, closing. So when you’re crafting the message you know what am I going to say in the first few moments to get the audience’s attention? Even on a phone call. When you pick up the phone, Well what do you say in the first few moments when you’re calling somebody to make sure you got their attention? And then what do you say in the middle to make sure you cover the content? And then a lot of people forget about the closing. You know they just wrap it up with thank you or hey talk to you soon. And I think the closing, and we’ll come back to that little bit in that transformation step, is really important part of that transport and this interaction into the results that we really want. So again don’t forget the basics – like you know open, body, closing. Every communication, whether it be a phone call or a luncheon or a presentation, should have those three pieces.

Peter: [00:18:14] Exactly. As you’re communicating this to the audience and myself, I’m sitting here reflecting on past, present, and potentially the future of those three. And I would say of of mine the weaker of the three is probably the closing.

Patrick: [00:18:33] And I think a lot of folks… first of all, I don’t think a lot of people spend enough time thinking about these things. Because how many times have you heard this Peter? “Oh well you know I’d love to have you come on and help us but we really have to focus on the hard skills.

Peter: [00:18:47] [laughs]

Patrick: [00:18:47] Like what could be harder than communicating? Now you’re a CPA right? I mean no offense but two plus two is four. That’s pretty simple. We know the answer. When you go talk to somebody you can’t always guarantee that person is going to be the same as a person who just spoke to yesterday. It’s a very hard skill to be a good communicator.

Peter: [00:19:05] That’s my responses, usually. We call communication the soft skills but the way I look at it it’s really hard to master. We call them soft, but they’re really hard to master.

Patrick: [00:19:19] Exactly.

Peter: [00:19:19] And when I put in that context people go “oh yeah I guess he’s right.”

Patrick: [00:19:24] So I try to remind people that anybody can talk but not everybody can communicate with impact, and that’s the idea of having this process. So if we had a little more time I would go into some different tools we could use to craft the message because there are some simple things you can do that are very quick. You know when people want to do a presentation usually they think linear. So linear thinking is when you take out a piece of paper and you go OK what’s the first thing I want to say, what’s the second thing I want to say, what’s the third thing I want to say? And if you’ve ever had to write something, Peter, and you’re like me, you sit there you look at the blank screen or the blank piece of paper and you just feel like I don’t know what to say. It’s like I’m stuck because you’re in linear thinking about.

Peter: [00:20:04] OK. I think I think I know where you’re going with this please go on.

Patrick: [00:20:09] And if you really want to jumpstart your thought process I ask you to think non-linear, or as my book coach said: “Puke and polish.”

Peter: [00:20:20] [laughs]

Patrick: [00:20:20] I love that phrase, right? I hope you’re not having lunch right now. But the idea is just to puke it out and You could polish it later, but so many people want to polish it before they get it out there.

Peter: [00:20:33] Oh my gosh – yes they do. That’s true. And actually that was something that you also taught me about writing and I have used this – this puke and polish – Pete just put it in Dragon Dictation. Just get it out of your body.

Patrick: [00:20:49] Right.

Peter: [00:20:50] And then once it’s out of your body and onto paper or on the screen, now go in it and polish that thing.

Patrick: [00:20:56] Yes. So, again, because I’m an extrovert and you know extroverts like to speak before they think. So I found for me I pick up my phone or I just dictate a story or I dictate something and then I go back and look at it and I can actually fine tune it. Because it’s faster for me to dictate a story than to sit there and try to type out the story. Now everybody’s a little bit different but I think in general if you want to craft your message I encourage you to think non-linear and, if you want a quick tool, one of the tools I love to teach is called the mind map.

Peter: [00:21:30] Love the mind map.

Patrick: [00:21:32] Yeah and the mind map is a very simple tool we draw a circle. You put spokes – It looks like a wheel – and all you do is you say to yourself I’m going to give myself 90 seconds and all I’m going to do is write down the first thing that come to my mind when I think about my subject. So let’s say for example our listener today has got a meeting with a prospect tomorrow, a potential client. They’re going to do a mind map. What do I want to do at lunch tomorrow with this client? And I’m going to draw a circle and I’m going to start putting down thoughts. My first thought might be I’m going to ask questions. I just need to ask good questions. Second thing is I want to find a way to make it fun because I think if we build deeper relationships and have fun people will more likely want to work with us. I’m going to make sure that I have good manners because we’re having lunch.

Peter: [00:22:14] [laughs]

Patrick: [00:22:14] So I’m going to listen to my mom and make sure that I don’t hunch over my plate. But you just take 90 seconds and you do a little mind map, come up with some things you want to think about before you go and have this luncheon, and all of a sudden you’d be surprised at all the kind of thoughts you come up with. So I don’t know if we can you know put a link on a site for the mind map, or you could just google mind map, but it’s a great tool that I think gets you out of linear thinking and quickly helps you come up with some content.

Peter: [00:22:41] I was taught the same thing but just in a slightly different perspective… because I was doing a mind map, I was trying to fill out all the circles and dots and everything, and someone taught me this concept – I think it’s what you’re talking about – called clustering. It’s putting something in the middle of the page, dump in your mind, get it all out, then go through and organize those things that are alike and try to figure out what maybe those topics are. Then it fits cleanly into a mind map and you can continue to explore even more.

Patrick: [00:23:11] Yeah well you’re right. And once you’ve done the creativity part, which is just the puke part, then you polish. Then you say I like this idea and I guess I should cover this first and I should talk about this a little bit more. So it’s a process, again another process, But the idea is so many people, when they want to craft content, they get stuck because they’re so worried about being perfect or saying the right thing they can waste five minutes just looking at an empty screen. When you do a mind map, in two minutes, you’d have or five six ideas already.

Peter: [00:23:39] Exactly.

Patrick: [00:23:40] Don’t work harder, work smarter when you’re crafting your content. So intention right. Why am I having his communication. Message. What do I want to say or how do I want to say it or what method do I want to use to help me accomplish this intention? And then we jump into the P part, Or the person. And you know what? There is no one size fits all when it comes to people. You and I are totally different. People listening today are different. So a lot of times people again they do projection and they think oh well this is a fun, Extroverted person so we’ll just tell lots of stories and you happened to be talking to analytical who is like oh my gosh not another story. So it’s important when you’re in the planning phase, IMP, the p is take a look at the people and I don’t know if you’re familiar with the different personality profiles. There’s the Myers-Briggs on the DiSC and all these different approaches. You’ve done any of those, Peter?

Peter: [00:24:33] Yes I’ve done Meyers-Briggs. I was s-l-o-w.

Patrick: [00:24:36] [laughs]

Peter: [00:24:36] Actually, you put me through the DiSC model some some years ago, and I’ve done the Hermann Brain Dominance model, and it said I had a full brain, a whole brain, which freaked out my friends.

Patrick: [00:24:54] Yeah, but you know it doesn’t matter what you use it just goes back to fundamentals. It goes back to Hippocrates, really. 400BC Hippocrates came up with four different styles. So when you start to think about communicating with impact, it’s always important to remember to blend your style with the person you’re communicating with. So if I’m talking to a very analytical person you know I know that they’re going to want a little more detail, a little more data, a little more structure. But talking to a relational person they’re going to want a little more fun, a little more story, a little more engagement. So don’t just go out there and you know assume that it’s really easy. I’ll just say this or say that. Take the 30 seconds and think who am I talking with and what is a good way to engage them?

Peter: [00:25:32] Exactly. Know your audience.

Patrick: [00:25:34] Know your audience, right. And I think when we do presentations we do a lot of that audience analysis. But I’m not always sure what we’re having a conversation we spent that extra couple of minutes thinking about that person who I’m going to talk to. I love, if you have a business card right now, I’d like you to take it out and I want to take a look at your title and just scratch out your title and write down this title: problem solver. Because everybody I think, particularly if you’re in business or an entrepreneur, you are really a problem solver. So your job is to figure out how to help that person get better at whatever they need. Now the other piece of that is you’re also figuring out what kind of style is that person and what’s the best way for me to help that person by picking the right communication tool with the right style.

Peter: [00:26:20] And understanding the different styles and understanding the left hemisphere of the right hemisphere of the brain. And you know as I tell audiences, CPA audiences, when you deal with those who are sitting on the right side of the brain, the right hemisphere of the brain, Don’t confuse them with facts because that’s the last thing they really want to see as facts. And then I tell those who sit on the right, when you’re talking to the left side, just as you said, you’ve got to give them points, bullet points, detail, spreadsheet, things like that in order to get them to have action on what you’re trying to communicate.

Patrick: [00:26:52] Right. So again we can spend a lot of time on the personality style and that’s the P step. But I’m just going to give our listeners today a couple of quick tips. So you know as a coach I like to coach people. So if you happen to be an extrovert today – you know somebody who is very outgoing, you like to speak before you think – I’m going to give you just a two-word little tip. I’d like you to jot it down if you’re an extrovert. Here’s your two words: Be quiet.

Peter: [00:27:16] [laughs]

Patrick: [00:27:16] If I was not so nice I’d say shut up, but I want to be nice and say be quiet. Because extroverts talk too much.

Peter: [00:27:22] Yeah yeah.

Patrick: [00:27:24] And luckily today it’s all about us so we can talk a lot. It’s OK. Because I know we’re both extroverts to some degree. And if you happen to be an introvert – you know the person is a little quieter, you tend to think before you speak – I’m going to give you two words: Speak up. Because introverts you tend to wait a little too long before you say something. And so again just a simple little tool. If you take nothing else away from our podcast today, just remember if you’re an extrovert, Be quiet; if you’re an introvert, speak up. But those are just some things you want to think about yourself too. So when you’re looking at the person, not just about the other person, it’s about you and what can you do to be effective when you’re communicating with other people.

Peter: [00:28:01] Perfect. Love it.

Patrick: [00:28:03] So that’s phase one right. Quickly planning what’s my intention, what am I going to say to achieve the intention, how am I going to adjust it to make sure it fits this person I’ve communicated with? The second half in a bottle is the ACT, or the activate. So how do you bring this message to life? You’re still kind of planning and I’m not really communicating yet. I’m still thinking about communicating. So the Activate is basically how do I engage people? You hear a lot today about engagement. I’m sure that’s something that comes up quite a bit with your clients, in terms of engaging the customer.

Peter: [00:28:33] Bingo.

Patrick: [00:28:34] So I think it’s important to think about engaging people both physically and mentally and emotionally. So there are three ways I like you to think about engaging people. Because everybody wants to be a part of the problem or solution. So a lot of folks give a lot of lip service to engagement, but I’m not sure they really do it.

Peter: [00:28:56] OK.

Patrick: [00:28:57] So give me an example. When you talk about engagement, what comes to your mind?

Peter: [00:29:04] Asking questions.

Patrick: [00:29:05] OK. Exactly. That’s one way to engage people. Now if you noticed, Peter, I just modeled for you how I was engaging you. Because I brought you into the conversation.

Peter: [00:29:15] Bingo.

Patrick: [00:29:16] Yeah. So again you’re an extrovert. You’re going to be careful that you don’t do all the talking. If you’re an introvert, You got to be careful you don’t let them do all the talking. So you want to be engaged. Go back to your personality style. But when it comes to today’s listeners, I think most people today are just very impatient. Nobody wants to be lectured to. Nobody wants to just sit there and have someone talk to them. So I got a little rule of thumb: every three to five minutes you want to be engaging the receiver in some way, physically, mentally, or emotionally. Every three to five minutes. So you do that in a lot of ways. Right you do that by asking questions. You do that by nonverbally. On the phone It’s great to be doing a little bit of that uh huh, Oh OK, Wow. That’s engaging. Because they know you’re still there. Stories are a great way to engage your customers. I tell all my coaching clients in the business development – I think we talk about this also Peter – You need to have some success stories so that you can share what’s been working. So when a customer talks about well I’m kind of curious do you work with anybody in health care? Funny you should ask. We just had a client last week we were talking with about… and you tell a mini, two-minute success story. That’s another way to engage people. So activating the message is really critical. So as you’re thinking about creating this great impact you know you want to make sure that you’re thinking about how do you gauge those folks.

Peter: [00:30:40] Can I ask a question?

Patrick: [00:30:41] Yes.

Peter: [00:30:42] Because you’ve engaged me in this conversation, and in order to have that engagement – that two-way communication… so I’m going to bring a little bit of improv in here because, in improv, I think one of the key components of it is listening to understand versus listening to respond. If we went Old school, we used to call it active listening.

Patrick: [00:31:06] Yes.

Peter: [00:31:07] I think that’s a big part of that engagement because, one, you know you have a dialogue and, two, you know that you’re having this conversation that you’re present and you’re not being distracted or you’re not bringing your agenda and forcing it on somebody. I think that’s a big piece of this communication model, as it relates to activate. Is that correct or am I off base here?

Patrick: [00:31:30] You’re right on target. And again you want to be engaged yourself, And you also want to make sure you keep that other person engaged. And people, as you know Peter, we think about listening and we usually to think about listen to what they’re saying. Obviously. But you also want to listen to what they are doing and what they’re not saying and how they’re saying it because all of those come together. As you always know, there are three parts to your message: your words, your voice, and your nonverbal, and a lot of people think that you know words are really critical. I have what I call the Donadio theory of communication. And I basically came up with this theory that… I don’t know what the studies show. There’s been a lot of studies out there – you’ve probably heard about the Moravians study – you know 7-38-55. Well that’s not really applicable to regular communication. So I came up with that Donadio rule of thirds – your CPA clients will love this – Let’s just take 100% of the message and divide it into thirds. And so you got 33 and a third for words, voice, and non-verbal. If you just did that right. I don’t have any research. But if you just did it simply. Well think about it. You only have a third of your message in words then. Both studies show it’s less than that, but I’ll just say it’s a third. But how many times, when we’re looking or communicating, do we focus on the words when only a third of your message is going to be the words?

Peter: [00:32:47] Right. So it’s much more visual.

Patrick: [00:32:49] Yes. So when you’re communicating again thinking about you know your facial expression, you’re nonverbal. Good morning. Good morning.

Peter: [00:32:58] Morning.

Patrick: [00:32:59] Yes. You just change the tone. So many people would… you ever call up somebody on the phone and you’re like oh did I wake you? It’s like it’s 2 in the afternoon because they just don’t have any energy.

Peter: [00:33:13] Right.

Patrick: [00:33:14] And that is a part of your brand. So when you’re engaging others you want to make sure you engage them both physically, mentally, and emotionally.

Peter: [00:33:21] And every time I have this conversation it takes me to the State Farm commercials where they have the words, and they have it in one scenario and then they do it again in the complete opposite, like the girl gets the car for the first time.

Patrick: [00:33:35] Yes. I love that commercial.

Peter: [00:33:37] And then you know the guy walks out and his car has been been stripped apart and they use the using the same words but in a different context. I just I think that’s brilliant.

Patrick: [00:33:46] I love it. That’s a great commercial. I hope you haven’t seen it. Just google that. That’s a really good example of just changing the words and changing the message. So you want to activate you know the receiver, you want to ask good questions, you want to tell stories. You know if you happen to be in the financial services arena, graphs are a great way to engage people. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. I hate to be cliche-ish, but that’s also a way to engage people – visually getting them to see that. But don’t overwhelm them like you see with some of these folks who have PowerPoint slides and they say now I know you can’t read this, and I’m thinking then why are you putting it up there.

Peter: [00:34:21] Bingo.

Patrick: [00:34:22] Yeah. So you know just be mindful that you want to every three to five minutes making sure you’re engaging that other person in the conversation. That’s why it’s called a conversation.

Peter: [00:34:34] Right.

Patrick: [00:34:34] It’s two people communicating. So that’s the Activate part. You’ve got an intention. You crafted the message to reach the intention. You adapted to the person. Now how do you make sure that you engage people in the process? That’s the activate. And the C is how do you clarify? Because a lot of times what you think they receive isn’t exactly what they got. So there is a thing called selective perception. You’ve heard of selective perception?

Peter: [00:35:00] I have to say no. It doesn’t ring a bell.

Patrick: [00:35:03] Well selective perception is where the meaning of the message comes from the receiver not the sender. So you selectively perceive what you want to hear. So if I happen to say dog, what comes to your mind Peter when I say dogs?

Peter: [00:35:20] Labrador.

Patrick: [00:35:21] OK. Well actually I’m hungry. It’s time for lunch.

Peter: [00:35:25] [laughs]

Patrick: [00:35:25] But the point is I say the word dog, who puts the meaning of the message? The receiver.

Peter: [00:35:30] Right.

Patrick: [00:35:31] So we’re communicating so many times we forget that we really don’t have that much control. Really the person that controls the message meaning is the receiver. So you can’t make an assumption just because I’ve done a great job communicating that that person got exactly what I wanted them to get.

Peter: [00:35:46] So if I said the word bank what do you think of?

Patrick: [00:35:49] Money.

Peter: [00:35:50] I think I’m going down to the river and fishing off the bank.

Patrick: [00:35:55] [laughs] Well that’s cause you’re a CPA and you don’t care about money.

Peter: [00:36:00] [laughs]

Patrick: [00:36:00] So a lot of times, again, you just want to check for understanding. You want to just ask a different kind of question. You know you might ask what I call… like a couple of quick tips: One would be what I call re-state. So if somebody says bank you might say “do you mean the bank on the corner of Broad and high?” No I’m talking about fishing. Have you been out to fish at the bank? So you say back to them what they said and you ask and make sure it’s the same thing. If I said you we’re start having bi-weekly podcasts. How often would we be meeting?

Peter: [00:36:37] Every two weeks.

Patrick: [00:36:38] Yes. I looked it up. Biweekly means twice a week or every two weeks. It means both. It depends on how you use it. So I’m here twice this week and you don’t show up – I’m all ticked off because Peter said we’re going to do bi weekly podcast. Again, The meaning of the message comes from the receiver. Don’t just assume because I said it that we both get it.

Peter: [00:36:58] Great example. Great example.

Patrick: [00:37:01] And yeah that’s the big challenge, again, with e-mail. Because when you send that e-mail, there’s nobody there to clarify. Now if you have a conversation and I you say bank and I say this and you say that and go oh no. If you sent me an e-mail that said let’s meet at the bank, I’m going to the bank. You’re going to the bank. We’re going to two different banks.

Peter: [00:37:18] Right.

Patrick: [00:37:18] So be very careful when you’re using e-mail to remember that, even though you think you communicated effectively, there’s a good chance they didn’t get what you thought they were going to get. I give you like a couple… in the workshop I always share somebody classified advertisements where people write things and I say now is this what they really meant? And here’s what I have here. Here’s an ad: “Man wanted to work in a dynamite factory. Must be willing to travel.

Peter: [00:37:44] [laughs]

Patrick: [00:37:44] That sounds like a dangerous job to me because you get blown up and you know you’re in Ohio and the next thing you know you’re over in Parkersburg you get blown over there.

Peter: [00:37:51] Exactly.

Patrick: [00:37:52] Or here’s another: “Dog for sale. Eats anything and is fond of children.”

Peter: [00:37:58] [laughs]

Patrick: [00:37:59] Yeah. So any time you send something out in a linear way, like an e-mail or an ad, be mindful that the meaning of the message comes from the receiver. You may not necessarily be sending the same message that you think they’re getting.

Peter: [00:38:11] Got it.

Patrick: [00:38:13] Then the last one out. Now wrap this up quickly with the T. As I said before you know I pretty much stopped there. Like well you know we both get it. We should be done right. Then I realized that so many people think communicating is an event because if we’re done it’s over. It’s an event. But again going back to processes -communicating is a process. So many times it’s not over just because we both got the same message. If you and I had an intention today that I want you to become my next client… just because you liked me and we both agreed that we might want to work together it doesn’t mean we’re done. We’re not done till either you sign an agreement with me or you tell me you don’t want to be a customer. So I realized that I needed to add to step in there, and that is transform. How do you transform this interaction or these words into the results we set for ourselves? And there are two types of transformations. There’s an internal transformation and an external transformation. And again for the most part I always thought about external transformations right. A deadline, set another appointment. You know those are the kind of things that we all talk about to be more efficient about making sure things happen.

Peter: [00:39:17] OK.

Patrick: [00:39:18] So when I say internal transformation What do you think I mean by that Peter?

Peter: [00:39:22] Beliefs.

Patrick: [00:39:23] Yes. Oh you are so good. You must have had a great coach.

Peter: [00:39:27] I did [laughs.

Patrick: [00:39:30] I think a lot of times we don’t think about what’s getting in the way of this person actually becoming a customer.

Peter: [00:39:36] Right.

Patrick: [00:39:37] Is it something that they believe about me or my service? And so many times I think we don’t explore that a little bit. So the internal transformation is how do I understand what they’re thinking or what they think about, and then how do I shift that (if it’s not the way I think that they might perceive me)? You know we all have a brand. Right. You, at the beginning of the podcast, kind of gave me my brand. You say oh you know I think of you as being such a you know kind and helpful… that’s my brand. You know whether I plan it or not that’s my brand. And so many times we have brands in our customers mind that may not be the brand that’s valuable. I don’t know if any of you are listening but if you happen to offer more than one service sometimes your customer only sees you as one service provider. Like a lot of my customers only think of me as a coach because I only do coaching for them. And I have to kind of transform their process of how they think of me because I am a coach and I’m a speaker and I’m a trainer and I’m an author. So I’ve got to kind of help shift the way they see me and that’s also part of that transformation – is that if I don’t get to just get them to see me differently they’re never going to want to hire me as a speaker because all they think of me as a coach.

Peter: [00:40:47] Right.

Patrick: [00:40:48] So that’s the IMPACT process. You know it’s a very complicated but very simple thing. I mean anybody could be a good communicator. It’s very simple to do but sometimes hard to master.

Peter: [00:40:57] But you said there are two pieces in the transformation.

Patrick: [00:40:59] Internal transformation and external transformation.

Peter: [00:41:03] And what’s that external piece?

Patrick: [00:41:05] Well the actual piece is what most of us think about. So after the end of our meeting “is it OK if I call you next week and see if you give me more details about what you think about the proposal?” So the external is what’s happening to move that conversation along. The internal is what’s happening inside that person that may be getting in the way. So they may come back next week and say yeah I’ve looked at it. I need a little more time. And the internal transformation is well I wonder why the more time. You know why? Because I haven’t done a good job of showing them the value. So they believe that there’s no value that that’s why they need more time. But if I keep thinking OK then I’ll call you two more weeks. I keep going external. OK I’ll call you in two more weeks. You talk about it and get back to me. I’m never going to make the shift because it’s not about the external – it’s the internal part. So we need to be thinking about what’s getting in the way of people moving towards action.

Peter: [00:41:55] OK so I want to explore this for second. So in essence you are saying perception is reality in the person’s mind.

Patrick: [00:42:03] Yes.

Peter: [00:42:03] Whether it be right or wrong… So if I’m trying to get you to be a client and you already have this perception that might not be real there would be that hesitation there. How does one change that perception into the the new reality, or what it really is? Like you were saying that people think you as a coach, but if you came to an organization and said I could do a keynote, I could speak. “But Patrick only I only hear you as a coach.” How do you change that?

Patrick: [00:42:35] Well let’s do a little bit broader. For example if somebody believes that I am priced too high – it’s an easier example I think for a lot of our listeners – OK your price is too high. Well they may not come out and tell me that. And so they keep thinking the price is too high, well then I want to shift that. So that’s a belief they have right. Well one of the ways to change a belief. First of all you need to be aware of what the beliefs are. So you got to make sure you’re asking good questions to kind of figure out what’s getting in the way. But if somebody said now your price is too high my response might be compared to what?

Peter: [00:43:07] Right.

Patrick: [00:43:08] And they might say well compared to XYZ company… so then I’m starting to figure out… Oh I see. So they think that what I offer is the same as X Y Z company. So I haven’t done a good enough job explaining the value. So if you want to change people beliefs, first of all you need to find out what their beliefs are and then you can change beliefs sometimes with more information. You can change beliefs sometimes with you know a story or an example that could shift the way they might see something. You can change beliefs by not you changing them, but them changing themselves by asking them questions to get them to start thinking different. Does that make sense?

Peter: [00:43:46] That makes sense and makes me think of a a guy named Dan Swartwout, who’s based out here in Columbus, Ohio. I interviewed him on an earlier podcast. He is a comedian and he was doing some corporate event or proposing some corporate event and the person who’s proposing to said you want that much for an hour? And his response was classic. He said “No I want that much for the last 25 years.”

Patrick: [00:44:11] Right.

Peter: [00:44:11] “Plus that hour,” and changing that belief.

Patrick: [00:44:15] Yes. So again people will believe “Oh my gosh. You get that much by the hour.” Well I always remind my clients because what I do now Peter when I set up my proposal is I just don’t tell them how much it is. There are 10 bullets that tell them all the things that I do for that investment. See I don’t even call it a fee because a fee gives them a belief that they’re paying something. I call it an investment. See I’m already changing the belief by the language that I use. So here’s the investment for my time with you. And here are the 10 things that that includes. So now they know there’s a lot that’s going on for that investment. That’s an example of transformation.

Peter: [00:44:53] And I use that one all the time, especially when I’m more working with CPAs and stuff. Get rid of the word cost.

Patrick: [00:44:59] Yes.

Peter: [00:45:00] Where will this investment take this company? Where will this investment take my career? Where will this investment… And to that point it’s a much broader way of communicating and it’s what’s in it for them.

Patrick: [00:45:16] Right. Now even though I kind of give you this process, IMPACT, in an order, you don’t have to do it in this order. You can start out with thinking about their beliefs and you know you could shift in a different way. But I want to give people at least a little tool to memorize the process. So now when you hear the word impact I’m hoping, Peter, you will know the six keys and it’s easy to remember.

Peter: [00:45:38] I most certainly will. I’ll begin to commit them to memory. But when I hear the word impact now I think of you. Patrick Donadio and the book that took only eight years to write.

Patrick: [00:45:51] [laughs] Yeah. And you know what, I don’t even call it a book. I call it a leader’s guide. Because it’s really not a book – you know what it’s almost like a workshop in a book and I really wrote it in a way that somebody would keep it on their desk and, if they’re going to have a great big proposal meeting tomorrow, they’d walk through the book very quickly and take a look at the P chapter and think about different personalities or they go you know what I get at work on questions. They go to that clarify chapter and take a look at what they could do to be better at clarifying. So it’s really a guide as opposed to your average book. It’s just packed full of great resources, and I wrote a book that I would want to buy. I’m not a kind of story novel kind of guy. I’m the person who is like let’s get to work I got stuff to do.

Peter: [00:46:28] So how can people find your book?

Patrick: [00:46:32] Well it’s easy to find the book. It’s actually at my web site PatrickDonadio.com. And the book is up there on the site underneath the store. It’s available. Right now I don’t have it on Amazon. Maybe eventually but mostly what I’m doing with my book is trying to just offer it to my client. It’s not a book for the world. It’s just a book for my clients who want to go deeper, or potential clients like maybe your listeners.

Peter: [00:46:57] OK. And I think maybe for my listeners I think it’s a great resource as they begin to try to change that or transform into more of an impact communicator. I mean I’ll be honest with you, Patrick, the tips that you gave today are priceless. I mean I appreciate you giving away so much information here and tips to help the audience become better communicators, so they can communicate with impact. Alone this takes them to another level. I think by actually reading your book, doing the things in book will take them to a completely whole new level that might start pulling people’s socks away.

Patrick: [00:47:41] Yeah. Well I want people to be successful and to be happier and to get more clients and find more time to go to the bank… and go do some fishing.

Peter: [00:47:49] [laughs] I knew you were going to do that.

Patrick: [00:47:53] [laughs] That’s the callback technique, right Peter?

Peter: [00:47:55] Exactly. Yeah.

Patrick: [00:47:58] Really it’s been great talking about the process and I hope if you’re listening today you think about, of the six keys, What’s the one that you want to work on the most? You know maybe you’re good at crafting a message and you’re pretty good at adapting to different people, but you know what? I forget to take that 30 seconds and ask myself why am I having this conversation. Or I forget about the transformation internally because a lot of times I don’t think about what people perceive or believe about me and I need to shift that because that’s the way that they’re going to want to come up or hire me. So if you listen to the six keys, which is the one that stands out the most for you to work on? I hope that’s what you’re going to take with our call today.

Peter: [00:48:32] I think they will. And I think the one that of all of these, and because it’s improv and and I think it’s extremely important, is that listening one.

Patrick: [00:48:41] What did you say?

Peter: [00:48:43] Excuse me? You said what sir?

Patrick: [00:48:45] [laughs]

Peter: [00:48:46] It’s the ability to be an active listener, or as I call we call it in improv: listening to understand. So Patrick would you play a little improv game with me real quick?

Patrick: [00:48:58] Sure… Is there a prize?

Peter: [00:48:59] Yes there is.

Patrick: [00:49:00] OK.

Peter: [00:49:01] The winner gets a copy of your book.

Patrick: [00:49:04] OK. I love it.

Peter: [00:49:05] And the game we’re going to play is called last word spoken, and the essence around this is someone will say a sentence. And when they end that sentence the last word that is spoken becomes the first word in their next sentence.

Patrick: [00:49:21] OK.

Peter: [00:49:22] OK. I’m glad you enjoyed playing this game.

Patrick: [00:49:27] Game to me is something that is exciting, particularly when I win.

Peter: [00:49:32] Win – that’s all I do is win win win no matter what.

Patrick: [00:49:37] What are you thinking about rapping in this particular venue? I think you should keep your day job.

Peter: [00:49:42] Job? I love my day job… and you’re right, I should not be rapping.

Patrick: [00:49:47] Rapping, to me, is or… when it comes to wrapping I’m better gifts probably well than I am with singing. Now I could do a mean Frank Sinatra.

Peter: [00:49:57] Sinatra… I would like to hear you sing some Frank Sinatra.

Patrick: [00:50:02] All right well there is a charge for that, Peter.

Peter: [00:50:05] Peter says it’s time to end this game.

Patrick: [00:50:08] I love it.

Peter: [00:50:09] So it’s a fun game to play but it really helps in reinforcing the thought that we need to listen to the entire sentence because many of us, if not all of us, when someone’s talking, we’re two or three or four steps ahead. And by being two or three four steps ahead we’re not really listening and we’re not focused – we’re distracted, and we could miss something.

Patrick: [00:50:33] Yes.

Peter: [00:50:33] And those who are active listeners actually parked their agenda, whatever they came to the table with, and listen to understand and ask questions and pursue. And the only way you can do that is to be completely focused on the conversation and listen to the last word spoken.

Patrick: [00:50:48] Yes. You know what it’s always interesting to me Peter when I’m out there training or speaking, typically on the subject. I always asked the audience “how many of you had listening skills training?” You know usually it’s like less than 15 percent of the folks raise their hands. Isn’t it amazing? One of the most important skills we use every day and we’ve never had a class or a workshop on listening. So I agree with that hundred percent. If you’re listening today, take some time to learn this skill. And it’s a tough skill. I’ll tell you why: because your brain operates at a different speed than your mouth. And studies show this. Right. You know the results?

Peter: [00:51:22] Yes.

Patrick: [00:51:23] We can think three times faster than we can speak, and it’s really hard to be an active listener because our brains just jump around on a bunch of different things, and that’s why this game is tough. You really have to focus and hone in. And listen for that last word, as well as think of what you want to say next. And sometimes you’re thinking of what you want to say next and you don’t get that last word and it’s not working at all. You can’t win the game.

Peter: [00:51:44] I think the one training class probably everybody has undertaken and it was that when we were children. What did your mother used to tell you? God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason.

Patrick: [00:51:57] Well my mother always said don’t take two meatballs because you got to make sure everybody else gets one.

Peter: [00:52:02] [laughs] Well and you are you are very active on social media and on Facebook, and I love it when you’re at your mother’s house and you’re live streaming her and her meatballs.

Patrick: [00:52:16] [laughs]

Peter: [00:52:16] And at the September NSA meeting, I would love for you to bring some of those meatballs to the meeting.

Patrick: [00:52:21] Yeah you’re right Peter. You know I think it’s really cool though. Some of the advice we get is so simple. You know what we all need to go back to the basics. It’s the kind of things that been around forever – universal truths I call them. We’re learning about the latest and greatest techniques and we forget about the simple things. And that’s kind of what this process is – it is very simple. Go back to the simple things that you’d be surprised at kind of impact you’ll make.

Peter: [00:52:43] And with that we’ll leave on the impact word. And Patrick I can’t thank you enough for spending time with me. I always learn when I’m in your presence and I appreciate that and my audience please go out. It’ll be in the show notes: his website, how you can get to it. Go out and explore, but become better communicators and have an impact in every one of those communications. Patrick thank you so very much.

Patrick: [00:53:12] Peter my pleasure my friend and good luck to you and I enjoyed the podcast. Thank you for having any time.

Peter: [00:53:19] Any time.

[music]

Peter: [00:53:19] I would like to thank Patrick again for being a guest today and sharing key points on his book communicating with impact. Remember to think about the six steps of impact and which of the 6 is your weakness. Start working on that today. Patrick has given me a PDF to put in the show notes to help you remember these six steps in IMPACT. Listen, learn, and learn. I have partnered with the Maryland Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute to bring an exciting new learning opportunity for accounting professionals to earn CPE credits. You can earn up to one CPE credit for each completed podcast episode purchased for only $29 through the American Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute self-study website. The podcast episodes are mobile friendly. Open your browser on your smartphone, tablet, or computer, Go to the MACPA and BLI self-study account, and listen to an episode. Take the review and final exam while you’re working out or after listening to an episode on your commute to and from work – It’s that easy! While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my website, only those purchased through the MACPA and BLI self-study Web site are eligible for CPE credit. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at www.PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic “Improv is no Joke for CPE credit” on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of earning CPE credit. Remember you can subscribe to my podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play. If you’d like to purchase an autographed copy of my book Improv is no Joke: Using Improvisation to Create Positive Results in Leadership and Life, for $14.99 with free shipping, please go to my website, PeterMargaritis.com, and you’ll see the graphic on the homepage to purchase my book. Please allow 14 days for shipping. You can also follow me on social media. You can find me on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn or Instagram. In episode 59, I interview Allison Estep, who’s a former creative services associate at the Indiana Society of CPAs. However she’s also studied improv for eight years at Second City in Chicago and I’m so looking forward to this interview. Thank you again for listening and remember to use the principles of improvisation, along with communicating with IMPACT, to help you become a stronger leader.

—