Improv Is No Joke – Episode 70 – Annie Conderacci

Annie: [00:00:00] So that moment that you know even when things aren’t perfect that you can still enjoy it and that you can watch these actors enjoy themselves messing up and relishing in the mistakes. You know the happy accidents they make. I just really wanted to be a part of that.

Peter: [00:00:27] Welcome to Improv is no Joke podcast, where it’s all about becoming a more effective communicator by embracing the principles of improvisation. I’m your host Peter Margaritis, the self-proclaimed chief edutainment officer of my business, the Accidental Accountant. My goal is to provide you with thought provoking interviews with business leaders so you can become an effective improviser, which will lead to building stronger relationships with clients, customers, colleagues, and even your family. So let’s start to show.

Peter: [00:00:58] Welcome to episode 70 and today my guest is Annie Conderacci, who’s a change management consultant and has studied and performed improv at The Second City, Annoyance Theater, and IO Chicago. She performs improv and sketch comedy all around the city of Chicago. She’s a graduate of the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University and a graduate of Rice University. As a change and management consultant, she frequently uses her improv skills to facilitate growth and positive change in organizations. Annie does an outstanding job of describing how improv does apply in business and discusses how you can use improv to defuse difficult situations. My advice to my audience is that if anything that Annie talks about resonates with you, go back and listen to the episode again and then go to her podcast episode on my website and download the transcript. This is great stuff. Before you get to that interview, I would like to talk about the first five episodes of this podcast are now qualified for CPE self-study credit in the NASBA category of personal development. Those interviews are with Clarke Price, former CEO of the Ohio society of CPAs. Mike Sciortino, author of Gratitude Marketing. Tom Hood… Well you’ve been introduced to him and you will be introduced to him again. Ed Mendlowitz, who’s a partner at Withum, Smith, and Brown. And Karl Ahlrichs, who’s H.R. professional at Gregory and Appel. These episodes are located on the MACPA-BLI self-study Web site and they are mobile friendly. Create an account and purchase an episode. You can listen to them on your daily commute or while working out, or even at your desk! When you’re finished, take the review and final exam on your mobile device or your computer. It’s that easy. While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my web site, only those purchased to the MACPA-BLI self-study Website are eligible for CPE self-study credit. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic: Listen, Learn, and Earn improvs is no joke podcasts on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of receiving CPE credit. OK now let’s get to the interview with Annie Conderacci.

Peter: [00:03:38] Annie, welcome to improvs is no joke. Thank you so very much for taking time out of your busy day to have a conversation with me about really the power of improvisation.

Annie: [00:03:52] Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to chat about it.

Peter: [00:03:56] And I can already tell just within a few moments this episode is going to be ten times better than the one I’ve done with your dad.

Annie: [00:04:02] I’m sure it is.

Peter: [00:04:04] Hahaha. And I’m hoping. I hope he’s laughing right now.

Annie: [00:04:09] Well you know he wasn’t trained the way I was trained so you know he’s self-taught.

Peter: [00:04:13] Hahaha. Exactly. So I’m curious to start out if you could give the audience the backstory on how you found yourself attracted, enamored by improv, and how you took that and created something really cool for yourself.

Annie: [00:04:35] Sure sure. So I guess my whole life I been a fan of comedy Saturday Night Live but I never really thought it was something that you could pursue professionally or in your free time. It was not something… especially I grew up in Baltimore. There weren’t a lot of improv theatres or teams. You can do and kind of in college as a hobby but that seemed too terrifying to me. So really it was after my first promotion and as a consultant that I was trying to think about now that I got this promotion What do I really want to do and how do I really add value? What are my skills? So I asked my teammates, I asked people I worked for where do I really differentiate myself, and what came back was really it’s how you kind can bring people together as a team. Your sense of humor really helps. You are kind of this beacon of you know fun in a kind of boring workplace or a stressful workplace, and just around that time a few of my colleagues and I went to Chicago, saw a show in Second City, and a light bulb went off and I said I have to do this. I don’t know what that means. But at second city they close every show with smart marketing saying if you want to do this and it looks like fun, come to the training center. And I was hooked so I knew I had to go there. So the way I plAnnied that out was that if I got into business school, work would transfer me up there and I could take classes at Second City, which was a very expensive and roundabout way of getting there but it didn’t seem to work out, which I’m very happy.

Peter: [00:06:24] So you were working by day and improvising at night.

Annie: [00:06:29] Yes. Improvising and going to business school at night.

Peter: [00:06:33] Oh oh oh wow both at night.

Annie: [00:06:35] Yes. So sometimes I was getting to work at 6:30 so I could make class by six and then make rehearsal by night. It was intense.

Peter: [00:06:45] So you never slept?

Annie: [00:06:47] No no no I did not sleep. But. I’m really grateful for that time it was… Talk about energy management. That was a time when I needed it.

Peter: [00:06:56] Oh yeah exactly. So what was it. What was the big aha moment that you had? Do you remember what it was in either watching the show or your first bet at the workshop that really grabbed you and said This is me? This. I get it.

Annie: [00:07:14] So there were a few. I think that first show part of it was realizing that you can have mistakes and everything is not perfect all the time and it’s not scripted, but that even watching the actors make mistakes and embrace those mistakes and have fun doing it… that fun was contagious. So there’s you know I kind of came into it with my hands or arms folded saying you know which make me laugh. Let’s see what you can do. And it wasn’t necessarily scripted content they weren’t workshopped and work work work that made me laugh the most. It was that that energy is contagious and that camaraderie was contagious and you all kind of felt like you’re in a living room at a party with your friends kind of just fooling around and playing games and making things up. It really is electric. So that moment that you know even when things aren’t perfect that you can still enjoy it and that you can watch these actors enjoy themselves messing up and relishing in the mistakes. You know the happy accidents they make. I just really wanted to be a part of that. And then my first class so I took my first class level A with Brian Posehn.

Peter: [00:08:28] Oh yes.

Annie: [00:08:28] Amazing.

Peter: [00:08:29] Amazing amazing.

Annie: [00:08:31] Absolutely amazing. And that first class was… I never felt so instantly part of an ensemble, part of the crew. And like whatever I did was right in that I couldn’t say anything wrong, that the group was there to support me, and that it just felt like you know the best play date you had as a kid.

Peter: [00:09:00] Hahaha.

Annie: [00:09:00] You know your parents set you up on these blind dates. But kids don’t think it’s awkward. Right. They they click you know and they just they are the best improvisers right because they just make stuff up and have a ball. And it was just unlearning a lot of these behaviors we have that oh that’s awkward or oh I shouldn’t say that – it was just so such a blast. And I got the bug I mean from that first class I just had to keep doing it.

Peter: [00:09:29] I just… I had Brian as– I was up for a three day intensive and Brian Posehn was my very first instructor. And you’re right. I mean it was it was such a potpourri of people that were in this group. There was actually like an ER doctor, a heart surgeon. I was I was the token accountant.

Annie: [00:09:49] Haha. It sounds like a bar joke.

Peter: [00:09:52] Yeah it does! But almost immediately the group kind of came together and he had a great way of having his you know his mAnnierisms and the way he did. But it was way that just brought everybody together. And I would walk back to my hotel taking notes in my notepad and just fill this thing up. And that was the best three days and I came back from that and I could not stop talking. It’s like you got me — I’m talking about it again!

Annie: [00:10:21] Yeah yeah yeah. His energy is contagious. I mean he’s just an incredible teacher. And I had Jay Suko a couple terms later and he was the same similar experience of just feeling like that level was more challenging. So I felt more challenge but at the same time so supported, which I think that was one of the lessons I learned that I really ended up taking back to work quite a bit is that you can still challenge people in a way that makes them feel supported and taken care of, and you can take bigger risks if you feel like you’re in a safe environment.

Peter: [00:11:01] Exactly. And I think that’s a big challenge in corporate America is one the ability to take risks because those who I’ve talked to the mantra that I hear is the C-suite wants us to you know think outside the box. But if we don’t have the right– if we think outside of the box and it fails we will lose our job.

Annie: [00:11:21] Mhm.

Peter: [00:11:21] So there is not there’s not that level of support there. You know it’s is the fear factor versus the environment that you know as I say bad ideas are just bridges to good ideas.

Annie: [00:11:32] For sure for sure. And you know it’s it’s that’s what I loved about… You know creating an ensemble where you trust each other. Right. Is that I’m going to say whatever I have at the top of my brain. I may judge it. But I have a group of people who won’t, who’ll say yeah that’s ridiculous. Let’s go with that and let’s see what we can build together. You know so that’s why you have a hot dog stand on Mars.

Peter: [00:12:02] Hahaha.

Annie: [00:12:02] Because why not. And I think in in business you know. Right. I think drawing that bridge between you know you’re not building a hot dog stand on Mars in business, unless you’re maybe Elon Musk. But you know this idea that if I’m soliciting ideas, there are no bad ones it’s just… if we can’t do that, let’s go with what’s pragmatic. What can we do that’s close to that? Right so you want hot to stand in you know the conference room. Probably not. But what is it about a stand that you want? And by saying yeah OK how could we make that work or what else is like that that we can do, it frees people up to you know take risks and you get better work. People aren’t really motivated by fear, and you’ll get kind of safe decisions and safe work out of them, if they were motivated by fear.

Peter: [00:13:02] Right. And in order to come up with these ideas you have to have a culture that supports– you have to have a culture that supports failure.

Annie: [00:13:10] Yes. Yes, and that freedom to fail is so important. I think even just framing failure as learning opportunities. Right. Is that you know I think one of the great things about being an improviser is you will have so many bad shows – way more bad than good. But I think the culture is such that improvisors go see other improvisors perform all the time and at the end of the show someone will say you guys sucked. When are you playing again? It’s the joy of the bad show because that’s one more bad show that’s under your belt for the good show. Right. And then you can celebrate the good show. But you you have a bad show and you’re it’s just great. You know you can say that was really bad. You know I can learn from it. And it’s the bad shows that you really learn the most from.

Peter: [00:14:06] Exactly. I got to share a story with you. I was doing a workshop a creativity workshop for a company in the Baltimore area, and they had brought their emerging leaders in from the U.S. and Latin America, and I set the culture to say you know that bad ideas are just bridges to good ideas. Don’t don’t don’t censor yourself. Whatever said stays in this room. There’s no senior management here. Nobody’s going to– you know. And one of the areas that they wanted us to tackle was come up with some ideas on how to increase profitability. So I threw that out there, throw in ideas, you know raise revenues cut costs. OK OK we got that. Dig deeper. Let’s figure this out. And this one gentleman from Latin America says I’ll tell you what we’re go to do my friends. This is how we’re going to increase profitability in our company. We are going to kill all of our competition salespeople.

Annie: [00:14:58] Hahahaha. All right. That’s an approach.

Peter: [00:15:01] And everybody just broke out in laughter, and for a moment there I panicked and I went in my head like what the hell am I supposed to do with this? Then I went wait a minute! If you believe this…. Think about it for just a brief second. I looked at the group and said I’ll tell you what. Let’s play this idea but we’re going to take murder off the table because I don’t look good in orange or Orange Is The New Black.

Annie: [00:15:25] Haha. Right. Right.

Peter: [00:15:26] But instead of killing them, what if we identify our competition’s top sales people and, instead of killing them, let’s poach them. I said I still don’t know if we would have got to that in that session with out that one gentleman giving us a horrible bad idea.

Annie: [00:15:45] Right.

Peter: [00:15:45] But felt confident that the culture was going to support him. I don’t know if they implement it but just it led down this wonderful path.

Annie: [00:15:54] Yes yes completely and I think that culture… I know I heard it said many times right that culture comes from the top down. So when you’re not in the C-Suite what what is there to do? And I think we all own responsibility for continuing and perpetuating that culture. Right. So even if you know you are in you know the worst culture in the world, you can still do what you can within your own space, and you can make the conscious decision to not perpetuate a culture that is counterproductive. And really it’s… if you’re fun to work with, people are going to want to work with you, especially if your methods create some sort of results. Right. So nobody has to see the ugly process that you know the bad ideas that lead you to the good one. You know all your customers care about is the good one. Right. So it really is helpful to kind of get out the cobwebs and make people feel like I can learn, I can grow, and I’m with people that are going to support that process.

Peter: [00:17:01] I wholeheartedly agree. And you know I always think… is there two words that might be used in the workplace that might spur this kind of positive energy? I don’t know. I’m pondering. Do you happen to know a couple of them?

Annie: [00:17:16] I’d say Yes And! The cardinal rule. I’ve wanted to get a tattoo that says yes and forever, but you know after many conversations with my dad… He’s like you know you could just get a T-shirt. But you know I believe so wholehearted and that there is just such a mantra. Right. You know Jay Suko said that the yes is implied when you say and, which I like too – get it down to one word, but it really does… When you first start improvising, you are forced to say yes and, and you become so sensitive to how often you’re saying no. Or but or well…. You know it’s that No we are building this process together. See I just did it… it’s this instant agreement in that you feel like yes someone is on board, and we are now creating together. To the point that my dad has now trained himself to disagree with me using Yes And.

Peter: [00:18:30] Haha.

Annie: [00:18:30] So every time he disagrees with me it’s Yes, And… yeah my improvising guru friend, coach, mentor Jay Suko, who I will continue to sing his praises, his son and he were at the playground. A friend of mine told me the story secondhand. But his son who was three at the time was playing, and he asked him Jack do you want your sandwich now. And he said no. He says Jack what are we say in on our house? And Jack says yes, and later.

Peter: [00:19:07] Hahaha.

Annie: [00:19:08] But I think you know I laugh about it… But the idea if you think about how many times a toddler will hear the word no… having a dad who is you know the primary caretaker during the day who is pumping him full of yes and yes and yes and, you know you can see the kid is calm, he is happy, he is creative. So you know just seeing it in a family context is is really cool to watch.

Peter: [00:19:44] Well the next time you see Jay… how old is his son now?

Annie: [00:19:49] I think he’s about five.

Peter: [00:19:51] About five. So when he becomes a teenager, he’s really going to be challenged to maintain Yes And. And my son now is 17 but when he was 14 he came up to me one day and he says Daddy why are you yelling at me all the time? I am not yelling at you!

Annie: [00:20:13] Right right right.

Peter: [00:20:13] Then I start thinking about my conversations and I was going yes but no because….and my book had just come out and I went Oh my God I I didn’t see it. I was I was I was completely blind to it. So I consciously made an effort to not say no and but, and just Yes And and tell me why you think that. And three months later he came back to me he says Daddy you’re not yelling at me anymore.

Annie: [00:20:46] Yeah. Wow.

Peter: [00:20:47] Don’t you still love me?

Annie: [00:20:51] Hahahaha. Right.

Peter: [00:20:52] And we talked about it and we figured out it was the yes and. And you’re right. We’ve become a lot calmer with each other and have developed a really richer father son experience because you know… the one thing that I love about yes and is the empathy – you put yourself in the other person’s shoes, and quite frankly I forgot what it was like to be a 14 year old boy.

Annie: [00:21:19] Right.

Peter: [00:21:20] Get out of middle school and to go to high school, got those hormones going.

Annie: [00:21:25] Yeah.

Peter: [00:21:26] And once I could relate with him, have empathy with him, discuss with him… the stress and the calmness come right down.

Annie: [00:21:36] For sure. One of my favorite improv exercises that I’ve done and it’s a little more of an advanced exercise… But you would go into a scene and your scene partner would say the worst thing that you could possibly imagine. Right so they say they start with conflict all these… They break every imrov rule. So they go to anger. They try to start fights. Sometimes they as a really mean question, and your whole job is to defuse that situation.

Peter: [00:22:05] Oooh.

Annie: [00:22:05] Because you’ll find — it’s a great exercise — and you’ll find as an improviser right, Especially with newer improvisers, A lot of times you want to go to conflict and anger because, when you are stressed, and not knowing what you’re going to say and having an audience especially is very stressful. So I’m going to default to anger and defensiveness because I don’t want to look dumb in front of an audience full of people. So a lot of times you’ll see these scenes just kind of devolve into… even if they start really happy and they’re remembering their yes and, they will ultimately devolve into these these fight. Because it’s I know this is what’s comfortable in a situation where I’m stressed out and high pressure. And you know at work you have high pressure stressful situations all the time. So one of the things that I love about exercise is how can you defuse when someone’s coming at you with you know why did you do this or why. You know what’s wrong with you. But you know where is this person coming from. Right? And how can I take care of my scene partner. What is it that they need or that their character needs that they’re not getting? And I think one of the greatest ways to initiate a scene is to make eye contact and smile.

Peter: [00:23:33] Right.

Annie: [00:23:34] You convey that I’m comfortable, I’ve got your back, you’ve got my back, and even in just a look you can do that. But I think it’s… It’s that at work right when you’re presented with a stressful situation, or you know someone’s yelling at you or mad at you, it usually comes from a place of stress. And sometimes it is culturally right. Stress rolls downhill. This is what I’ve learned that when I’m stressed I put stress on to whoever is below me.

Peter: [00:24:14] Right.

Annie: [00:24:15] So they can feel the pain that I feel. Whereas what I found to be more productive is hey I notice you’re stressed out. You know my superior. What can I do to diffuse that and What can I do to help that situation? How can I make you look good? Right and that’s an improv rule too. You want to make your scene partner look great. You want to make your team teammates feel like geniuses.

Peter: [00:24:40] Right.

Annie: [00:24:40] So I think this idea that you coming at me with anger or from stress…. That’s about You. It’s not about me. So how can we work together to kind of alleviate that stress?

Peter: [00:24:54] OK two questions here. What’s the name of the improv game that you just described?

Annie: [00:24:59] Oh man I don’t know the name of the game. I will have to look it up and I send it to you. But I mean it’s just to deflect and diffuse.

Peter: [00:25:12] And the second thing is so you know we can do that on an improv stage. We can do that in a workshop. But when somebody comes at you and they’re mad, I think you their body language is going to make you become defensive.

Annie: [00:25:26] Of course.

Peter: [00:25:27] And it takes a lot of energy to diffuse that to say what you know what seems to be the problem and how can I help us in this situation. But so if I’m the cause of his anger or her anger, how do you dig out of that?

Annie: [00:25:49] Yeah. And actually it brings to mind… I was interviewing a young woman for an analyst position out of college, and she was a soccer referee and she refereed 10 to 12 year old girls, and she would have parents you know.

Peter: [00:26:08] Ohhhh Yeah.

Annie: [00:26:09] And I asked her a similar question. Right. So how do you deal with that? And keep your cool during the games. And she said you know to me I think it’s actually really empowering. Right. I think it’s you know it’s just a game. It’s 10 to 12 year old girls playing soccer and I know that’s not about me. It’s kind of a compliment that I can make you that upset.

Peter: [00:26:33] Hahaha.

Annie: [00:26:33] You know I’m just a college student trying to ref the game doing my best the best I can. But you know it’s it’s… And she says I usually address them with calm. You know it’s calm and relaxed, and that defuses it because the thing is, what happens when you come back with that anger and defensiveness it just escalates. So. So it’s very hard to continue to fight when it’s a losing battle. Right. You’re you’re not…. You want to fight with me? I mean one of the best tips that I got from Jay was if someone’s trying to start an argument with you in a scene, you can say I’m not trying to fight with you. Character to character, improvisor to improvisor, employee to supervisor – I’m not trying to fight with you. I’m just come from a place of honesty, and I think that’s that’s the improvisor way too. If you don’t know what to say, start from truth. Right. So a lot of times… I mean I’ve been in plenty of situations where things have gotten heated. Right. But I think it’s knowing that your body physically will get defensive. That body language. Acknowledging that this is something that my body is reacting to, but you know cognitively I know that this is only going to escalate if I continue with it. Right. So sometimes it’s OK let them get out whatever they have to get out, and then where can we where can we get that common ground right. And acknowledging how they feel, that I understand your stress, I understand that you know I don’t know the report was late. Help me understand where we can… We can do better in the future. Right.

Peter: [00:28:26] And that takes me to a Harvard Business Review article that came out a few years ago that basically said, if you can take emotion out of a discussion of an argument, you’ll get to a solution faster. And one of the suggestions was is let them get the emotion out.

Annie: [00:28:43] Right.

Peter: [00:28:43] Let them get that anger out let them get the sadness out – let them get out of the system and then become a little more rational and you’ll stick to the facts. And then how can I help you or does this help me get better. And it turns into a much more productive… and it is to a degree what you are saying, defuse.

Annie: [00:29:01] Yes and I think as an improviser one of the things I’ve learned is acknowledge the way somebody feels. You’d be surprised how powerful that is. To say I understand you maybe stress or I get that you’re stressed out, because that is… even just having someone acknowledge that can be a huge relief. Right. So and seeing the words right as opposed to you know from my body language you can tell that message is received, you’re stressed out, you’re angry. It’s so much more productive. Right. I think at the end of the day it’s not… Yes I am kind of touchy feely and I think that everybody’s feelings matter, but and really at the end of the day you get to that productivity work quickly when you can acknowledge and say it’s… address the emotion I would say, even instead of get past it. Right. It’s that it’s that this is a valid thing. It’s valid that you’re stressed. It is valid that you’re angry. Now let’s unpack that.

Peter: [00:30:06] Yeah exactly. And how can I– how can we figure out figure it out and just make it better. And just so it doesn’t happen again. You know I had a boss once and I had a huge screw up and I was expecting to get chewed up and I went into her office and and told her the mistake. And she did not flinch. She looked as calm cool and collected. And then she asked me what my solution was, which I had none because I panicked and I went in there. She then she you know jumped me. Then she really chewed me upside down the other side. But these words I have never forgotten. She says Pete. I expect that you will make mistakes because you’re human. I go Holy cow. Nobody’s ever told me that before. But she says but I also expect you come into my office with a solution. I don’t care for it’s right or wrong – it’s going to start the conversation.

Annie: [00:31:05] Exactly.

Peter: [00:31:06] And I mean… although she did know at the time, she was improvising.

Annie: [00:31:11] Of course great boss. And I think the context is important. Right. And I took this with me as with my employees. Is that even if they’ve screwed up the biggest thing that you know they could have possibly screwed up right, in the grand scheme of things it’s like you know the company stock isn’t going to crash because this thing is late. Right. You know it’s it’s like let’s put this in context. It’s important. And I think saying you know yes even if it makes your boss look bad. Right. I think for me the worst is when I feel like I messed up and made my boss look bad. It’s part of their role to make sure that you know you learn from it right and how can how can I learn better from it. And then if I am managing people how do I serve as that shield? How do I put that into perspective for my own employees? Right. How do I provide that environment? You know like your boss right. To say that you have that freedom to fail and mess up because I want you to be able to work, and you’re going to learn from making mistakes. You’re not going to learn and retain and grow by doing the same thing over and over again. You know in that 70 percent 80 percent good. Right. You know I want to stress you and challenge you and make you better.

Peter: [00:32:35] I have not for all the bosses I’ve had in my life… Nobody has ever addressed it like she did.

Annie: [00:32:43] Yeah.

Peter: [00:32:44] And some won’t even address the issue. Some would just you know ignore it and maybe will go away or maybe he’ll just go away. But I mean her name is RoxAnnie. I give her.. those words will stay with me forever and I tell all she was the best leader, one of the best leaders, one of the best bosses I’ve ever had in my life because nobody said I expect that you will make mistakes, which really scared me.

Annie: [00:33:15] Hahahahaha. Well, right, you’re like all the time?

Peter: [00:33:18] Yeah. Oh really I love my job now. I can relax and be myself.

Annie: [00:33:23] Right. Right. And I think you touched on… I think there’s a difference between a manager and a leader. You know so. So your manager. Right. I think of a manager as almost micromanaging right. They manage tasks right. It’s very internally focused and internal to the organization right. And that’s a certain set of skills. Right. And I’m not knocking those skills. I paid a lot of money to get those. But I think there is something about leadership in that you know a leader is someone that inspires and motivates. Right. And I think you can have organizations where you have managers, really great managers, in leadership positions who don’t know that piece or aren’t skilled at that piece. We see that in corporate America a lot. You go up the chain in management and you get to a leadership position where you don’t know how to inspire and motivate because that’s what you’re good at. That’s not when you’ve been practicing for the last you know umpteen years. So it’s it’s that… How do we teach leadership? Right because that’s something that isn’t really part of your KPIs, whether or not you’re doing a job you know how are you motivating your team? How are you really inspiring people to do that work? Do people trust you? Those are much harder to measure and much harder to get to and say… this is kind of that X factor. Right. We call it executive presence or something like that.

Peter: [00:35:01] It’s it’s funny that you go down this path because you know corporate America… they spend a lot of money to bring people come in teach them leadership and they think well I’ve had an eight hour. I’ve had a conference course on leadership. I can be a leader, but… I think maybe I saw this on a Simon Sinek video interview but he said you know leadership is something that you have to practice every single day. A seminar doesn’t make you a leader. Reading books on Lincoln doesn’t make you instantly a leader. You have to take a someone named Phil Kim did a TED talk. You know you have to have these little have these little wins in order to win to win the battle. And I think you know you know this has always been one of my frustrations as somebody who who teaches leadership– is the ability to follow up and make sure that they’re keeping– but you know I that’s not my responsibility. It’s to inspire them to continually to try to do this because you know they get back you get back to work you get right back into that rut.

Annie: [00:36:08] Of course.

Peter: [00:36:09] And if you forget and it’s like OK… did we all just waste our time and money for… to check a box?

Annie: [00:36:18] Yeah. And you have things you have behaviors, a series of behaviors, that have made you successful thus far. Right. So it’s very hard to unlearn those things. And that’s one of the things you know I’m bringing it back to Improv that I was learning. I have these behaviors. And for me one of the behaviors I wanted to unlearn was I used to go to a joke right away when I was stressed or there was tension. Right. It was tell a joke and diffuse the situation that way. And you know that’s not great either. You can make a lot of people very mad when you do that.

Peter: [00:36:52] Uhhh Yes you can. Voice of experience.

Annie: [00:36:56] Exactly. So I think that was part of the reason I wanted to train. I want some control of when I use it when I don’t. And I think that that was the behavior that I had learned to work you know on the playground, and had worked you know in middle school and high school and college… that it didn’t work so well you know at work. And you know you have to unlearn those behaviors. And I think one of the things that being a little bit type A, as I would say a control enthusiast.

Peter: [00:37:31] Hahahaha.

Annie: [00:37:35] You know there are certain behaviors that you have right that you know that you built up that made you to a certain point of success. So there is absolutely a fear in unraveling those. Because it’s worked so far. And I think in organizations right to culture change right… Well this is the way we operated for 50 years. And it’s especially if you’re profitable right… if it ain’t broke. You know and I think that’s one of the great things about Glassdoor is doing right is that Glassdoor is giving that power to employees to say you know all the stuff that used to just kind of go away… with you know once I leave the company it doesn’t matter… that things like that are really starting to matter. That culture leadership really you know now you can start to measure it because people are filling out there satisfaction surveys and they’re and they’re putting it online for everybody to read. I think it’s quite a good thing but I think organizations are really having to adjust because people are demanding it.

Peter: [00:38:48] Exactly. I’m going to turn this just a little bit a different direction. It’s tied into there. So to learn, to do… What’s your thought on having a course as part of the curriculum within middle school, in high school, in college, as it relates to improv.

Annie: [00:39:08] Oh I mean I think it’s fantastic. I I volunteer with an organization that actually does that. It’s called Room to Improv. It’s run by a fabulous woman who went through A3 at second city and also took courses from Jay Suko. And it’s precisely that. She used to work at schools, was a retired schoolteacher. And within a couple classes she realized this belongs in a classroom because she was in her 50s when she was taking the class and she’s realizing you know all these behaviors that she built up. And she’s saying wow you know if we started with kids right, and kids could start acknowledging these behaviors early, building good teams, teamwork, leadership skills, thinking quickly on your feet, supporting each other… that it can actually make a great difference. Not just personally for them, but also you know for the school. So she’s in quite a few schools. She’s in charter schools right now. But you know the students notice the difference of course. I think the teachers, too, do notice a difference in behavior. And now we’re working… I’m working with her on actually type metrics that. So attendance. Does that change? Nobody wants to miss improv day…. because it’s a lot of fun.

Peter: [00:40:48] Haha. Yeah.

Annie: [00:40:49] So I think there’s a way to actually start measuring it, because that’s the thing that I have struggled with in business is I can preach about how great it is all day but I think they want to say OK give me the metrics. Show me where the value is. Because a lot of people think it’s just you know cracking jokes all day… and so showing that value. And I think the great thing about schools is that you can you can look at attendance, you can look at grade point average, you get a disciplinary record. And I think it absolutely makes a difference because I just believe it and I know it and I’ve seen it myself, anecdotally, but I’ve also seen it in these students.

Peter: [00:41:29] I’ve thought about it… if I was in town more often than not I thought about something, maybe taking it to my son’s high school, and just start something like that. Just because I truly believe… and we’ve had this conversation via e-mail about I’d love my son to spend a year studying second city, studying improv in Chicago, because I think overall it would have such a big benefit to him when he was into college, when he would get into the workforce, and it would be the big differentiator between him and another candidate. I don’t know.. do you know Alison Estep?

Annie: [00:42:06] I don’t think so.

Peter: [00:42:07] She studied at second city and she was a graduate from the conservatory and I interviewed her not too long ago. I met her… She was at the time working at the Indiana society of CPAs as a marketing person and she whole heartedly– same thing. We need to get this in the schools is be great for kids. It really is life changing, and that’s what I love about it because you know when I when I discovered this I was doing standup and there’s no support there.

Annie: [00:42:38] No no no.

Peter: [00:42:40] It’s it’s very… can be kind of a kind of cutthroat. But when I was introduced to improv all this is this is when I made that realization that aha moment. It’s much more than just being funny. It can be a way of life.

Annie: [00:42:54] Of course. As an evangelist I wholeheartedly agree.

Peter: [00:43:00] Well I’m carrying… I’m behind you with your robe holding your robe and carrying your cane and tooting the horn for you.

Annie: [00:43:08] Thank you.

Peter: [00:43:09] Because think about my audience, which primarily when I speak to these groups of CPAs, and to say that they might be skeptical could be an understatement.

Annie: [00:43:24] For sure.

Peter: [00:43:25] And you know I could see that they’re going it’s all about comedy. Who’s that Drew Carey dude. It’s just about silliness. But once I was able to get them in room, once I was able to within the first five to 10 minutes show them that it was much more than comedy… I could see their aha moment.

Annie: [00:43:48] For sure.

Peter: [00:43:49] And then they began to understand, and that was a big challenge when I wrote the book because I knew that was a hurdle I’ve been trying to scale for years, and it was at some point in time I finally had that aha moment on how to get past that. Knowing that they think it’s silly and being able to convince them that it’s really wonderful leadership / life tool.

Annie: [00:44:16] Right. And really the comedy is it is just kind of a happy output. Right. I think most of improv is not funny. Or it’s funny because you’re watching people… you know you’re watching your teammates struggle and enjoy themselves. Right. But but I think we almost do ourselves a disservice for saying that it’s about the funny because it’s it’s really about truth and honesty. Right. And I think most of the laughs you get in improv are when you speak to that truth and specificity. I’m seeing someone… specificity just such a gift. As a performer right. It’s that I use I say I’m making Boboli pizza instead of just pizza, and people laugh. Right. And you Boboli itself isn’t funny. Right. But it’s that you are doing something that I can identify with. And now we immediately have made this connection. Right. And so it’s not it’s it’s that truth in comedy. Right that I laugh because I recognize and I laugh because I can relate, and I think some of the funniest improvisers are not “funny people.” Right. I think you mentioned you took your first workshop with you know a bunch of professionals.

Peter: [00:45:38] Yeah.

Annie: [00:45:39] And I had the same experiences. Most people taking the class are not there to be on Saturday Night Live. They’re there are to gain confidence in public speaking, they’re there to do something different, meet new people. A lot of them have other reasons for being there. And luckily in Chicago people know what it is and they see the value in it. But still you find some of the funniest improv is from people who aren’t being funny at all… they’re just being honest, and it’s just such a relief.

Peter: [00:46:18] Well yeah. I’m thinking Truth and comedy… wait a minute that’s an improv book.

Annie: [00:46:24] It is.

Peter: [00:46:24] I’ve read that I’ve got that somewhere in my bookshelf. And I think that was the first improv book that I read and then I turned into a student of it. But you’re right. Boboli is kind of a funny word…. But you put it in context that everybody can get.

Annie: [00:46:43] Yes.

Peter: [00:46:44] And I think that’s something… as you said, I went son of a gun I think you’ve just helped me here because you know I mean I started a new book called Financial Storytelling.

Annie: [00:46:55] Can’t wait to read that.

Peter: [00:46:57] Yeah. Because think about you know when you have the CFO or whatever and they’re delivering data, delivering numbers, it’s boring. I’d rather watch grass grow.

Annie: [00:47:11] Haha.

Peter: [00:47:11] But there’s importance of these numbers so it’s getting behind and understanding and finding out what that story is. What I put as part of financial storytelling is taking complex stuff and putting it in a context that everybody can understand. And when you said Boboli pizza, and that would connect with everybody in the room, my light went off and I went that’s exactly what I’ve been doing. I just didn’t put it in that same context.

Annie: [00:47:40] Great. Right. And I think when you’re speaking, when you’re doing public speaking or on stage or anything, there’s that barrier between you and the audience right. And anything you can do to break that down and make that relatable, especially if you can get a laugh right because a laugh… you know it kind of lets information sneak in the back door. It releases this executive function…. that you are now willing to listen a little bit more and retain a little bit more because you know, chemically, your brain saying this is something you want to pay attention to. Obviously, brain chemistry and all that is not my forte, but it’s true.

Peter: [00:48:22] It is. And brain chemistry is not my forte either. However I have been immersing myself, as it relates to these emotionally charged events such as laughter, and in a book I’ve read by John Medina called Brain Rules states you know when we laugh like that, it’s just like your brain is emotionally charged event. It’s like taking a posting and slapping it on your brain. Remember this. Remember this. And those are emotionally-charged events laughter sadness shock whatever. Stick with us versus boring data, which is mind numbing, but we tend to do that. And I did… a very complex piece. The night before I’m sitting there going I’m gonna put them to sleep on this consolidation of a VIE or whatever, and I’m like I had my slides, I had my words, and somebody asked me what did you do? I said I try and break it down to the lowest common denominator. They’re trying to move something from here to here. They’re trying to put something someplace that doesn’t want to be. And that’s when I got the idea to use mother in laws as part of my presentation on this topic because I knew I had 200 CPAs in the room and I know a bunch of them had to be married, and a bunch of a bunch of them got mother in laws. And then I went from the body language of when I put this initial slide up of body language grab my phone to when I hit the punchline on the mother in law, then it went to instant laughter and everybody leaned forward and they were engaged. Putting things in context that other people could understand. Improv taught me that – you helped me realize that.

Annie: [00:50:09] Oh well, thanks! Hehe.

Peter: [00:50:11] Wow. Because I mean you know I’ve had so many people ask me when I when I do that, how do you do that? And you just put it into context – I’m improvising. I’m throwing stuff out. I’m asking those questions. I’m trying to find that lowest common denominator; put things in context that everybody can can do, and we all can do it. It just takes time and practice.

Annie: [00:50:35] For sure. Yeah. And you know Boboli means something different than dominoes right.

Peter: [00:50:41] Right.

Annie: [00:50:41] You took the time to make Boboli… But I didn’t have enough time to make it from scratch.

Peter: [00:50:47] Haha. Exactly. And before Domino’s changed that within the last couple of years, Domino’s did not have a really positive… as really as it relates to pizza.

Annie: [00:51:00] Yeah.

Peter: [00:51:01] Exactly. Oh my gosh we could talk for hours.

Annie: [00:51:04] For sure.

Peter: [00:51:05] And we will. But I want to have respect for your time and and I just want to say I enjoyed this conversation. And we will have another conversation again and go in different directions. The name of the not for profit again was?

Annie: [00:51:23] Room 2 Improv.

Peter: [00:51:27] OK I’ll make sure that I put that in and the show notes, if anyone wants to visit or understand, Or better yet provide resources and send money to the nonprofit.

Annie: [00:51:39] That’d be wonderful.

Peter: [00:51:39] More than happy to do that. I hope some day here in the near future get to Chicago, get a chance to meet with you, and just pick your brain even more because I’ve learned a ton. You’ve brought a different perspective than I thought this was going to go. And you did great job related back to really work and how to manage, how to lead, how to diffuse, and how to provide such a wonderful culture to an organization, and your employer… you know let your employer listen to this, especially this part. She deserves a raise and a promotion.

Annie: [00:52:15] Oh, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that and this was so much fun. I look forward to talking again, and when you’re in town I’ll take you out Lou Malnati’s.

Peter: [00:52:24] And that is?

Annie: [00:52:25] The best pizza in Chicago.

Peter: [00:52:27] Oh. OK. You had me at the best pizza.

Annie: [00:52:32] Exactly. I had to be specific. Some people are Giordano’s fans, but my money’s that Lou Malnati’s is where it’s at.

Peter: [00:52:39] Outstanding. Well I look forward to having the pizza. Thank you very much. And we’ll talk soon.

Annie: [00:52:45] All right. Great talking to you, Peter.

Peter: [00:52:50] I would like to thank Annie for giving her time to discuss how improv applies to today’s business. As I’ve been saying for a long time, Improv is powerful stuff. I would like to talk about the first five episodes of this podcast are now qualified for CPE self-study credit in the NASBA category of personal development. Those interviews are with Clarke Price, former CEO of the Ohio society of CPAs. Mike Sciortino, author of Gratitude Marketing. Tom Hood… Well you’ve been introduced to him and you will be introduced to him again. Ed Mendlowitz, who’s a partner at Withum, Smith, and Brown. And Karl Ahlrichs, who’s H.R. professional at Gregory and Appel. These episodes are located on the MACPA-BLI self-study Web site and they are mobile friendly. Create an account and purchase an episode. You can listen to them on your daily commute or while working out, or even at your desk! When you’re finished, take the review and final exam on your mobile device or your computer. It’s that easy. While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my web site, only those purchased to the MACPA-BLI self-study Website are eligible for CPE self-study credit. This is not nano-learning – this is self-study learning. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic: Listen, Learn, and Earn improvs is no joke podcasts on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of receiving CPE credit. Remember, you can subscribe to my podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play. If you’d like to purchase an autographed copy of my book Improv is no Joke: Using Improvisation to Create Positive Results in Leadership and Life, for $14.99 with free shipping, please go to my website, PeterMargaritis.com, and you’ll see the graphic on the homepage to purchase my book. Please allow 14 days for shipping. You can also follow me on social media. You can find me on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn or Instagram. Remember to use the principles of improvisation to help you better connect and communicate with those in your organization.

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Improv Is No Joke – Episode 69 – Byron Patrick

Byron: [00:00:00] I actually got a tattoo on my right forearm in the shape of a Superman diamond with the backdrop of the Maryland flag and the prestigious CPA letters running across the diamond.

Peter: [00:00:25] Welcome to improv is no joke podcast it’s all about becoming a more effective communicator by embracing the principles of improvisation. I’m your host Peter Margarita’s the self-proclaimed chief edutainment officer of my business. The accidental account. My goal is to provide you with thought provoking interviews with business leaders so you can become an effective improviser which will lead to building stronger relationships with clients customers colleagues and even your family. So let’s start to show.

Peter: [00:00:57] Welcome to episode 69 and today my guest is Byron Patrick, who’s the managing director of CPA practice at Network Alliance. Byron is known nationally as an industry thought leader and a multi-recipient of the CPA Practice Advisor’s 40 under 40 award. Byron has been an active member of the Maryland Association CPAs since the beginning of his career. He is one of the founding members and past chair of the MACPA’s new young professionals network. Byron is a past chairman of the board of directors MACPA. In addition Byrons a member of the technology committee and has participated in a number of task force and initiatives over the years. Byron credits much of his professional success to the support and membership of the MACPA, and this is the crux of our conversation. The benefits from volunteering at your state CPA Association is endless. The financial and personal investment Byron has made to the CPA has paid for itself many times over by the people he has come in contact with over the years. I enjoy all of my conversations with my guests and I really enjoy this conversation with Byron because I share the exact same belief as Byron. And our paths are similar in many ways. Well before we get to the interview, I’d like to talk a little bit more about the first 5 episodes of this podcast which are qualified for C-p self-study credit and the Nash but category of personal development. Those interviews are with Clark price the retired CEO the Ohio society CPA Mike scorned Keno author of gratitude marketing Tom Hood who was the current CEO of the Maryland Association of CPA is Edmon Lowitz who is a partner with the firm of Smith and brown and Carl all Rex has an H.R. professional. Gregory in Apel insurance these episodes are located on the MSCP may be ally self-study Web site and they are mobile friendly. Create account and purchase an episode. Then you can listen to them on your daily commute or while you’re working out or even at your desk when you are finished. Take the review and final exam on your mobile device or your computer. It’s that easy. While oscillated improvs is no joke. Podcasts are available on my web site. Only those purchased to the CPA Bill ISO study website are eligible for CPE self-study credit. You can get the detailed instructions by visiting my website at. Peter Margarita’s dot com. And clicking on the graphic. Listen Learn and Earn improvs no podcast on the home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of receiving C-p credit. OK now let’s get to leave you with Byron Patrick.

Peter: [00:03:51] Byron welcome to my podcast. I greatly appreciate you taking time out of your very busy schedule to have a conversation with me today.

Byron: [00:04:01] Yeah thanks for having me Peter. I’m looking forward to hanging out and just having a good time.

Peter: [00:04:09] Byron and I we both spoke at the Southeast accounting show in Atlanta a little over a week ago and after our sessions we were listening in a restaurant maybe in a bar and we were just having a couple of drinks when we got in we got to this really cool conversation. But I asked him if he’d be on the podcast kind of share that with us. And obviously he agreed to it. But you know just so everybody has a little bit of idea of who you are. Can you give us a little bit about your background Byron?

Byron: [00:04:40] Yeah absolutely. I’m a CPA by trade. I started my career with a small CPA firm in Annapolis, Maryland, and when I was there I was kind of the young guy in the office and therefore the only one who knew how to right click.

Peter: [00:04:59] Hahahaha.

Byron: [00:05:00] Once that was discovered, my trajectory in the accounting industry changed dynamically. I realized that the taxes were not my love and despite loving audit work I somehow just kept getting sucked into this I-T world. So you know after a few changes in 2003 I actually became the detractor of a rather large CPA firm in the Baltimore area, and subsequently in 2008 I started my own company supporting CPA firms as they transition into the quote unquote cloud. You know hung out there for a number of years and sold that, moved onto network alliance where now I can really blend kind of all my loves of the accounting industry, doing the same type of support for CPA firms, but really embracing my involvement in the industry. I was chairman of the board for the Maryland association of CPAs in 2013. Heavily involved with with the Maryland Association, the American Institute of CPAs, or as we refer to it now,The Association pf International CPAs… to be official. And you know so now I’m I’m kind of riding the circuit seeking to CPAs all around the country just meeting them and talking about IT security, IT updates. Basically everything and anything that is as nerdy as it can get falls under my perview.

Peter: [00:06:52] I’m still trying to get past You’re the only one who could right click.

Byron: [00:06:57] Hahaha. It was in 1999 and 2000 you know the fact that you had two buttons on a mouse was was pretty far out.

Peter: [00:07:07] Haha. So before we get into a conversation you know because we’re going to really become such a voluntourism and the benefits of it. Tell me more about what your firm does with other CPA firms. I mean when you provide IT solutions and security, that to me that’s a very broad brush there. Can you give me some examples of what you what you do?

Byron: [00:07:32] Absolutely. It is a broad brush because you know we really we’re almost like an outsourced I.T. department for your firm. So we have firms that we support everywhere from you know Maryland, Delaware, all the way to Fairbanks, Alaska. And instead of those firms having their traditional you know network, owning servers, and managing updates and you know having the Byrons in the office walk around installing QuickBooks to their computers. We basically relocate that stuff to a tier 4 data center. We have engineers and support team members that that handle everything you would expect of an I.T. department. And you know kind of package that in a monthly fee. So we rebel on the whole hourly billing that typical I.T. consultants give. And you know provide really high level support that, to be honest, most firms under a hundred people that say they can’t even afford this level of support that we provide to do in-house so we kind of create that economies of scales and give them you know the same tools that the big guys are using, and a level playing field.

Peter: [00:08:52] Your business must be exploding then.

Byron: [00:08:55] It’s going well. It’s very– I mean that’s when I started my business doing in 2008 and that grew really well, and then Network Alliance just has a much larger team than I had built. So having a full team behind it where we’re selling the heck out of it really helps a lot. You know given circumstances like what’s going on in Houston used and here in a few days Miami Florida you know solutions like ours can give businesses the peace of mind that they don’t have to worry about that aspect and can just focus on the family. And you know know that everything else is going to be ready for them to help their clients and whatnot. You know when the time comes out concerns terms of where their data is and if they can use it.

Peter: [00:09:43] Yeah I mean any time we think about a disaster you want to protect your people, your data, and then your assets, and having the deed is already taken care of… Nowhere near, has to be a big piece of mind. For a lot of your clients like you said for the people in Houston and the people in Florida upcoming, I think you know I think a lot of that but sometimes we don’t think about it until it’s too late. Or after the fact just like oh man I’ve been in a do this I’ve I mean… oh crap. I should’ve done that and yeah. I’ve always said the P in CPA stands for procrastination.

Byron: [00:10:26] Ha ha ha ha. I think that is a very good answer. I’ve been fighting for years to figure out how to overcome complacency and procrastination in this industry. And man that thing is embedded.

Peter: [00:10:43] Yeah I think it’s once you pass the exam and you get the injection of… they follow it up with the intention of procrastination and complacency, but you know… it’s just that complacency just you know a normal human factor at some point in time. But I mean in today’s world with the amount of change that’s going on we don’t have time to be complacent.

Byron: [00:11:08] No. It moves too quick. By the time you’re complacent, you’re a dinosaur.

Peter: [00:11:13] Oh by the way do you have a BlackBerry I could see?

Byron: [00:11:18] Hahahaha. Man, don’t you miss BlackBerry. It was a symbol of.

Peter: [00:11:23] The old crack berry. Thanks for clarifying that. What your business does, and it sounds like you provide an outstanding service. I forgot to mention when we started this you told them that you’ve been heavily involved with Maryland Society of CPAs, and you are a CPA, but you’ve got this unique aspect of how proud you are of being a CPA and and a Maryland CPA. Would you like to share that with my audience?

Byron: [00:11:57] Sure absolutely. I never knew how much attention it would actually get. In 2013 as I mentioned I was chairman of the board of Maryland association and you know for anybody who knows Marylanders we have we have great pride in our flag. So you know to kind of commemorate my experience and really attribute my loyalty to the industry and the state I actually got a tattoo on my and my right forearm in the shape of a Superman diamond with the backdrop of the Maryland flag and the prestigious CPA letters running across the diamond.

Peter: [00:12:44] We’re going to put on I’m put in the show notes. You’ll take a picture of it I’ll put it on the Web site so people when they listen they can see this tattoo.

Byron: [00:12:55] You got it.

Peter: [00:12:55] And I’m glad, when I was chair of the Ohio society, that I hadn’t met you yet. I’m I’m I’m not sure where I would put the tattoo…

Byron: [00:13:16] Hahaha. I have yet to see another state chair step up to the plate. I’m determined to get Tom Hood to get one. I want to start like a hash tag that you know create some sort of campaign.

Peter: [00:13:32] Hash tag Tom Hood CPA tattoo trending on Twitter.

Byron: [00:13:38] If we can get that trending. That would be outstanding.

Peter: [00:13:42] Well as I told you this episode is airing two weeks after Tom’s episode and I’ll make sure to send Tom a note to listen especially to the first 10 15 minutes of the podcast.

Byron: [00:13:57] Awesome.

Peter: [00:13:57] So you became a CPA… and when did you get involved with the Maryland Association?

Byron: [00:14:05] So I you know I was really fortunate. The firm that I started out working for at the time the chairman of the MACPA was the owner of the firm. You know from day one. He basically sucked me into getting involved with with the Maryland Association and they hadn’t been able to get rid of me since. I just kind of become a rat. You know every once in a while they put out traps that I just eat cheese and keep going. It’s you know but it’s man I’m grateful for all of my experience… the relationships and people that you know I’ve connected with I mean they you of course add to the list. It’s it’s awesome. It’s I I was very fortunate to have that. I don’t know if you would call it guidance or forced involvement in the early days but you know it’s a definitely laid me out for for a successful future.

Peter: [00:15:09] Yeah I think we did a little bit more voluntold instead of volunteering.

Byron: [00:15:13] Well said.

Peter: [00:15:17] Well do you remember what one of the first things you did as a volunteer for the Maryland Association?

Byron: [00:15:22] Yeah I do actually. So this was pretty cool. The association at the time again this was 2000 I believe was realizing hey you know we can no longer be just the old boys club. We really need to kind of dynamically change ourselves. So they created this strategic governance task force where they they actually split two groups. It was an under 35 group and an over 35 group, and they said redesign the ideal member association. You know no rules no nothing go off in the corner and do it. So you know I’m put in the room with you know all these young mostly CPAs and we designed just this kick ass solution and it was hilarious because you know eventually we got to present it to the board of directors and you go in the room and well the over 35s… I think they were using the overhead projector transparencies and that you know we’re rocking out this awesome PowerPoint presentation, and the board of directors basically combined the great elements of both groups. And at that point I mean if you or even trackback kind of Tom Hood’s trajectory when you know Marylander really hit the map… I bet you would track back to that time frame. And so it was I mean I couldn’t have timed it better.

Peter: [00:17:05] Wow. What a cool way to start off your relationship with the Maryland association because I got involved with the Ohio society at the same time in 2000. That’s when I went into academia and I felt that getting to know the Ohio side of my professional association would be a great way to network as well as get exposure for my students as well as keep up with what’s going on in the profession, and I think one of the first things I did is I volunteered to be a chair or volunteered and so I was made a chair of a committee. We were still be doing the recognition of the new CPAs. And we had this luncheon and I was in charge of that luncheon and getting a speaker… We were able to get some the chair at the time of the AICPA whose name is escaping me right now… Yeah that just opened up, one, Like you said the people that you meet and, two, it just opened up a tremendous amount of opportunities at that time.

Byron: [00:18:18] Yup. And what people don’t realize to your point is when you show up as a volunteer, there’s no shortage of opportunities. It’s the fresh blood and all of a sudden you know you’re an important body in the room.

Peter: [00:18:34] So you were chair 2013. I was 2000. I remember somebody asked me what keeps me up at night being chair. And my immediate response was this bucket that had a huge hole in the bottom of it and that was the baby boomers that were leaving and going retiring. But we weren’t replenishing that membership because of the younger generation… There was no being voluntold or maybe being shown or told or explain the benefits of joining the professional association, and all of a sudden now membership is beginning to shrink. And in your mind how do you engage, Get excited, This actually I’ll say under 30s who are who are CPAs… so they’re not staff but they might be in the senior or the manager level, to get involved. As well as I still believe that you got to go into the classroom you got to inspire the students and join in. And we do by giving them a free membership but there’s there’s got to be other hook there.

Byron: [00:19:55] Yeah and I mean to me the hook is is getting involved. You know it’s I think that the student involvement is the gateway. You know I think Ohio does a similar thing with CPA day, at the state house every year to meet with our politicians and it’s been growing every year. The number of students who show up and it’s such an awesome opportunity to see what being part of this industry and what being part of the association is about, and getting access to things that are beyond their wildest dreams they never realized they would have access to. So you know I seen those future CPAs getting involved and staying involved longer. And you know the people who are in it all we pay our dues without question. It’s the people who kind of sit back and don’t get involved where it becomes a struggle to sustain the value. So you have to get involved and you’ve got to create opportunities in all different ways to do it.

Peter: [00:21:12] And I think part of the struggle is those who are who are out of school, whether it’s in public, whether it’s an industry, those first few years you’re overwhelmed, and to carve out time to you know do something after hours… I kind of get that. But at some point you know we get to the point that we got to quit looking. You know will my employer pay my dues? No. OK. I’m not going to join. Wait a minute. We’ve got this problem because you’re looking at it as a cost, when really it’s an investment in your career.

Byron: [00:21:50] Oh yeah.

Peter: [00:21:51] And I think that’s part of the challenge is showing the value of that investment and your dues into your career and how you grow your career. And I think maybe that’s where we’re missing the boat.

Byron: [00:22:06] Oh I agree. And you know if you can do it early I think you know then it becomes a given. I know for a fact you know when I was changing jobs and doing interviews I walked in every interview and I said you will be paying my dues and you will be supporting my time out of office being involved with the association. And if they didn’t support it well I knew right away the culture of the firm wasn’t for me. And then seeing that that was so important for me changed the conversation. So if we can show that value early on, then it becomes a given. And it’s just part of the package.

Peter: [00:22:52] Showing that value. So everything of value is built on trust. That’s from David Horsager, who wrote The Trust Edge, and he also stated that the lack of trust is the biggest expense organizations incur. So in taking David’s words applying it here. The membership lost trust in their association because they’re not seeing the value.

Byron: [00:23:16] I think that is a safe assumption. I you know. Yeah that’s a really interesting perspective and I can’t argue with that.

Peter: [00:23:26] As I sit there and think of it that value that we’re trying to show that value lost that trust… have they lost trust because going back to your earlier point that we become complacent? I’m fortunate to be able to travel the country in a lot of state associations, CPA societies… Creating change within an organization… Most organizations is difficult, and to have that type of change… we might want to do it. And when it comes time there’s that fear that we’ll maybe screw up so we don’t do it. So we we looked the same way as we do as we did back in 1990.

Byron: [00:24:12] Yeah.

Peter: [00:24:12] I take Maryland out of that equation to some degree because obviously Tom is an innovator, and he’s restructured, changed, and moved Maryland to the head of the class. A lot of these other states, in talking with them, it’s just that well this is the way we’ve always done it. It’s like you know we’re focusing on a product but rather we need to be focusing on the client, the customer, the member.

Byron: [00:24:39] Yeah. Absolutely and you know I get that there is a struggle in the sense that a lot of these state societies have really been based on just providing CPE, and that you know now we’re in a world of of free CPE ad nauseum. But you know but I think to your point you know with Maryland is you know Tom and the entire Maryland team have embraced like… CPA that… sure we have the technical stuff, but then we have the stuff that you do right? I mean there’s the things that develop us as team members, as individuals. For me when I’m looking at CPE… I don’t just want it for for the office. Like I want the self development where I go home and maybe apply something I learned in my personal life, and stepping it up… we’ve got to step up the game and get people to understand that you know some free webinars from a vendor that barely qualifies for CPE. Sure that checks a box on your license every every renewal period. But you know that’s really not helping you in any way.

Peter: [00:26:04] Yeah. When I look at I think about NASBA.. even though a lot of angst with them, but the one thing they did too I thought was right is that they allow personal development courses to qualify for CPE.

Byron: [00:26:20] Yup.

Peter: [00:26:21] Now it’s up to the state to decide what they want to do, and I’m not going in the state but there’s a state out there that when I was looking through their CPE requirements what it takes. Personal development did not qualify.

Byron: [00:26:36] Such a shame.

Peter: [00:26:38] But it goes back to what you just said. So you get in at that personal development that helps you in your business as well as in in life. Yeah I think you know that goes back to… we haven’t changed. But I do see work work with BLI and the clients that they put me in front of, and the privilege of doing that. The attitude about soft skills… I tell you they may be soft but they’re pretty hard to master.

Byron: [00:27:15] Well said.

Peter: [00:27:16] I see more and more firms more and more companies doing more of that these days to augment the technical side, where during the recession you soft skills? Pfft. Yeah I’m sorry. We’re not we’re not paying for that as an investment. It’s called an investment. And now it seems…. Well I’ll just say this. At one point in time, 90 percent of my business was technical, 10 percent on the soft skills of personal development.

Byron: [00:27:45] Oh wow.

Peter: [00:27:45] Today my business is ninety nine point nine percent personal involvement. Point 1 percent technical.

Byron: [00:27:53] It’s awesome. It’s awesome. And I can tell you I mean from your session down in Atlanta I can’t tell you how many times I’ve brought up to people now that silent and listen have the same letter. I mean that alone was worth the price of admission.

Peter: [00:28:11] Thank you very much. I got a little nervous there for a moment.

Byron: [00:28:16] It could have gone down so many roads.

Peter: [00:28:22] So your your involvement with the Maryland association. I mean you’ve been… you’ve met a ton of people.

Byron: [00:28:31] Oh yeah.

Peter: [00:28:31] And you’ve met the movers and shakers in the CPA world in Maryland, as well as nationally.

Byron: [00:28:38] And even international.

Peter: [00:28:40] Oh yeah.

Byron: [00:28:41] Yeah. And and and then I mean you know obviously it’s it’s a community of you know… the paparazzi isn’t following any of us, but you know I can say you know I personally know so many people who are the rock stars of the accounting industry globally. I mean you know that is pretty powerful to be able to have you know personal conversation with you know folks who are experienced and have more connections. I mean that doesn’t happen without the involvement.

Peter: [00:29:18] Right. And having that involvement, having the commitment, and gaining trust within your network, as well as within the management the Maryland association, because they didn’t one day just pull your name out of the hat of all the members went oh it’s Byron’s time to be president.

Byron: [00:29:40] Hahaha. I drew the short straw that year.

Peter: [00:29:45] Haha. You know it’s an investment of time that really has a huge return on investment. It’s just hard to calculate sometimes.

Byron: [00:29:54] Yeah yeah. There’s no tangible calculation, you can’t quantify it. And if you’re expecting quantifiable ROI on your involvement, you know you may be barking up the wrong tree.

Peter: [00:30:11] Yeah. But you know when you when you say that you’ve met some of the rock stars in the accounting profession. Name drop for me if you would just.

Byron: [00:30:20] Oh well I mean for one right now the queen of the industry, Kimberly Ellison-Taylor I mean… So she’ll tell you like her and my friendship dates back to you know 2000. We both got involved about the same time. So I mean you know clearly a personal friend. Let’s let’s go to the next incoming chair of the AICPA, Bill Reed. Just great guy that You know I have been connected with for a number of years. I mean obviously we’ve already said Tom Hood ad nauseum. You know I mean there’s few people who get above that. How about Jim and Gary Boomer? These guys have been influentially involved in the Association for years and I consider them you know… and not just colleagues in a sense but personal friends. So it’s a you know there’s there’s a lot of people out there who I really do that are to be friends that, without this involvement, they’d just be names that I’d read about.

Peter: [00:31:41] Yeah. And when you said Kimberly I get goosebumps. And I met Kimberly some years ago worked with Bill… I was in Las Vegas because the National Association of Black accountants and she went to dinner with Tom Hood, myself, and Karl Ahlrichs, and I fell in love.

Byron: [00:32:06] Hahaha.

Peter: [00:32:07] She had she had me at hello. One, the woman is the energizer bunny.

Byron: [00:32:13] Yes.

Peter: [00:32:13] I don’t know how she keeps up that pace, but just her story of growing up in inner city of Baltimore and where she is today and all that she does. And you know I really wanted to be there when when… the year that started at that breakfast. Unfortunately I had a speaking engagement. But I have run into Kimberly a number of times over the past year. And you know Kimberly if you are listening I hope I can call your friend because I told you just call me anytime. I’ll be happy to do anything… I’ve had some Interesting conversations with her. I think the ones that you know getting to know Barry Melancon on the AICPA that’s… he’s got an interesting story as well.

Byron: [00:32:58] Oh yeah.

Peter: [00:32:59] I mean the guy smarter than… But I mean the exposure even in my own state the people that I’ve met… that I still keep in contact with. And you know being on different committees you know sharing different things being part of it and getting to know that network. It’s been priceless.

Byron: [00:33:28] Oh yeah absolutely. I mean I look at again my friendship with Mark Koziel at the AICPA, and I mean man like despite the fact that I I at a moment’s notice will go and hang out and just grab drinks with a guy… to have you know a friendship with somebody, a relationship with somebody, you know in his position at the AICPA is just… you know it definitely has it’s opportunities.

Peter: [00:34:02] Yeah it really does. And so let’s steer this in just a little bit of a different direction, but circle back to your business. With all the contacts that you have made through your volunteership in Maryland, I have to believe that that has turned into referrals, that has turned into revenue, that’s turned into profits.

Byron: [00:34:26] 100 percent. There’s… not that I couldn’t have done it without it. But the path sure as heck would have been a lot different. And a I mean you know just as of last night I got a Facebook message from our mutual friend Jennifer Elder, with a referral.

Peter: [00:34:48] Oh!

Byron: [00:34:48] I mean you know… Jennifer’s another one that I never would known her outside of my involvement. She’s she’s an awesome rock star to you know have in the list of friends.

Peter: [00:35:01] I don’t know if you know this but Jennifer is my office wife.

Byron: [00:35:06] I didn’t know that.

Peter: [00:35:08] I’m the office husband. She and I… she and I met five years ago at a BLI thought leader conference and about a year later she had this wonderful idea of developing a course called the eight hour MBA, and I helped her with the content of that and I mean for a while we were like talking all the time and like OK this is the office husband and wife, and you’re right it’s another rock star. I pulled up your LinkedIn page and you know a friend I haven’t seen him in years, who I went to graduate school with at Case Western.

Byron: [00:35:48] Really?

Peter: [00:35:49] You know Dave Sharkey?

Byron: [00:35:51] Oh yeah absolutely. I mean we… I know Dave basically through a potential customer opportunity here. So that’s how I met Dave.

Peter: [00:36:06] Dave is a great guy and when we talk about the people that we know you’re one of the few that I’m hooked up with in LinkedIn that we have 74 mutual connections.

Byron: [00:36:18] Hahaha. That’s awesome.

Peter: [00:36:19] I’ve heard six degrees from Kevin Bacon but we’re 74 degrees from something.

Byron: [00:36:26] There’s no doubt in some way shape or form. I think we may be connected to everyone.

Peter: [00:36:32] I think so. And I think I told you this, in all transparency, when you were in my session in Atlanta, you were kind of towards the front which I thought was really you know most CPAs are stuck in the back. But but I looked I didn’t recognize you at first. I went where do I know this guy? It’s been a few years and all I had to do was look down at your forearm.

Byron: [00:36:57] Hahaha.

Peter: [00:36:57] And I think I said you are you lost? You’re in Georgia when you’re supposed to be in Maryland.

Byron: [00:37:06] Hahaha.

Peter: [00:37:06] I think I think the biggest I think that the biggest benefit of being a member of an association is this piece of it is the worst kept secret… or maybe… I don’t know. But when I talk to other CPAs like ourselves and talk about the network that we have been able to grow, how my business wouldn’t have started if I hadn’t had my involvement at the Ohio society and the CPE director at the time kind of gave me my start, and she was there to help me and then I just kept meeting more people and more people. I always wondered if I hadn’t gotten involved… It takes that road and and lengthens it. Well would I have gotten here? Yeah. But it would have taken a lot more blood sweat and tears when you know… as long as you’re doing a great job and you’re trustworthy and you’re reliable and you’re not a pain in the behind, people will talk good about you.

Byron: [00:38:14] That’s right. Absolutely. And you know so you’re talking about you talked about the things that kept you up at night when you were chair. And for me it was all of our members who were missing out on these opportunities. And my big message during my chair year was be selfish and get involved because you know as much as I do to give to the industry and association, and everything else, my take away is a thousand fold. And it’s it’s ok. I am perfectly fine with you getting involved if it’s to be selfish, because once you show up you’re not going to leave.

Peter: [00:39:04] Right. But I think sometimes there comes a time that you’ve gone through just about everything that you can… like the pinnacle is being chair of the association’s executive board. Then it kind I don’t know about you but I missed that responsibility. I missed that interaction. It was like a drug.

Byron: [00:39:26] Yeah.

Peter: [00:39:26] I mean here you were on the pulse and then all of a sudden… I’m like Clark’s not texting me anymore. I’m… getting e-mails. And I I went a few years without getting really involved in anything and then I started getting involved with the National Speakers Association, the Ohio chapter, and a couple of years ago and they put me on the board and be careful what you wish for because I’m now president elect.

Byron: [00:39:59] Hahaha. Rinse and repeat.

Peter: [00:40:04] Exactly. My wife just shakes her head and I went Yeah I know. It just eats time, but it doesn’t really eat time. It’s just people who… who I have access to.

Byron: [00:40:15] Yeah.

Peter: [00:40:16] And if you want to be the best, you want to surround yourself, you want access to the best, and the best is the network that you can build. You don’t want to be one of the top five people in your network. You want to be the weakest link.

Byron: [00:40:30] Oh yeah.

Peter: [00:40:31] And I think that I have built and continue to build a network where I want to be the weakest link and I want to be surrounded with some of the best and the brightest. That’s access.

Byron: [00:40:43] Oh. 100 percent. And to your point… I mean in fact I don’t know why we didn’t meet each other at that thought leaders dinner. I’m fairly certain I’ve been there but you know I’m, like you, have been fortunate being invited into you know a variety of these like thought leader meetings dinners whatever you want. And yeah I walk in the room and I go like what the hell am I doing here? Like you know like these are like superstars and I’m just kind of like get to witness it. I am totally with you. It’s having people around me who are smarter stronger faster. You know that just keeps the fire burning.

Peter: [00:41:32] Yeah it does. As you were describing that, it took me back to my first time walking in at AICPA Council as a council member. And I’m sitting there going…. What man did what do they know? I better be quiet and not say anything. I mean I was… starstruck is probably not the right word, but I was to some degree intimidated because I start realizing these are all heavy hitters in industry. Yeah. It was just like… ok.

Byron: [00:42:10] Somebody made a mistake and I ended up here.

Peter: [00:42:14] They need to go back and count the ballots.

Byron: [00:42:16] Haha right.

Peter: [00:42:16] But it was also so cool because I think the one speaker that was there that I’ll always remember was Sal Khan.

Byron: [00:42:28] Yeah. Oh that was my favorite one ever.

Peter: [00:42:30] Yeah. That was that was really cool. And then they’ve had futurists on, and there’s been some interesting speakers, but just getting to meet other individuals from different states… and I still keep in contact with a few of these guys over the past… oh it’s been almost seven eight nine years something like that.

Byron: [00:42:51] Yeah.

Peter: [00:42:53] I mean the reason why I wanted to have you on on the podcast is because we had this conversation and you know they have it recorded and to be able to use it in order to help those who are hesitant or those who don’t see the value in joining your state CPA Association… hopefully the conversation that we’ve had will inspire some to step in, Lean In, take a risk, take a chance.

Byron: [00:43:28] I hope so.

Peter: [00:43:29] I would assume to call anybody to man an association that’s on staff, in Ohio calling me on the Ohio society staff, or anywhere in the country, called a state association, tell them who you are and you want to volunteer to do something. Be careful you might be chair of the board later.

Byron: [00:43:46] That’s right.

Peter: [00:43:46] But what a great outcome that is though.

Byron: [00:43:50] Oh man Absolutely. Absolutely. If a few people just get that inspired, that would be just phenomenal.

Peter: [00:44:00] Well I agree and Byron I appreciate you taking time out of your schedule. I had a blast in Atlanta, but you don’t live in Maryland anymore? You’re on the Virginia side now right?

Byron: [00:44:16] So I work on the Virginia side but I’m still in Maryland.

Peter: [00:44:21] Well I will be back up in Maryland soon and we’ll definitely get together for dinner and catch up, but I appreciate it. I love the conversation we had in Atlanta I love this conversation. And I think just the passion in both of our voices may inspire, whether it’s students, young CPA, or somebody who has some seasoning to them, to get involved and it’s all just it’s all just a good thing.

Byron: [00:44:50] Oh yeah yeah. Absolutely and when you’re in the town… I want to get good feedback from a Kentucky whiskey tongue on the Sagamore whiskey. I can envision a drink or two that may include that.

Peter: [00:45:14] Hahaha. For those who aren’t in Maryland, you have to before you wrap this up you explain Sagamore.

Byron: [00:45:24] Well so. So for those of you, Kevin Plank, the owner of Under Armor, has a large horse farm in Maryland called Sagamore farms that has a very unique feature of freshwater that runs across limestone, which is ideal for rye whiskeys. So he has created Sagamore whiskey out of Baltimore with a whole lot of Maryland tradition. And it’s it is definitely one of my favorite whiskeys.

Peter: [00:46:02] I told you I’m born and raised in Kentucky and I’m a Kentucky bourbon snob. I know that. I admit that, but if anybody offers me free whiskey I’ll try.

Byron: [00:46:13] Hahaha. Done.

Peter: [00:46:18] We’ll get that on the calendar. I appreciate Byron again thank you very much. Can’t wait to be sipping some whiskey with you.

Byron: [00:46:26] Can’t wait, brother.

Peter: [00:46:30] I would like to think Byron for giving his time to discuss the benefits of volunteering at a state CPA society. For those in my audience, it’s now up to you to pick up the phone, call your state society, and volunteer. I’d like to talk a little bit more about the first five episodes of this podcast which are qualified for CPE self-study credit under the nice but category of personal development. Those interviews are with Clark price retired CEO of the Ohio society of CPA Mike scorn. Teano author of gratitude marketing. Tom Hood who is the current CEO of the Maryland Association of CPA is Edmon low wit who is a partner with the firm of wasn’t Smith and brown and Carl all Rex who was an H.R. professional and Gregory and Apel insurance. These episodes are located on the MSCP belie self-study website and they are mobile friendly. Create account and purchase an episode. Then you can listen to them on your daily commute or while you’re working out or even at your desk when you are finished. Take the review and final exam on your mobile device or your computer. It’s that easy while also like improvs is no joke. Podcasts are available on my web site. Only those purchased through the CPA Bill self-study Web site are eligible for CPE self-study credit. You can get the detailed instructions by visiting my website at Keiter Margarita’s dot com and clicking on the graphic. Listen Learn and Earn. Improv is no joke. Podcast on the home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of receiving CPE credit. Remember you can subscribe to my podcast on iTunes stitcher and Google Play if you like to purchase a personalized signed copy of my book. Improv is no joke. Use an improvisation to create positive results and leadership and a life for only fourteen ninety nine and the shipping is free. Please go to my Web site and you’ll see the available now icon on my home page. Just click and go to the shopping cart. In addition you can download improvs no joke audio book for forty ninety nine so you can listen on the go. You can follow me on social media. You can find me on Facebook by searching the accidental account at my Twitter handle is at. Margarita’s and my Instagram name is Pete Margarita’s connect with me on Linked In my search for my entire night. In episode 70, I interview Anne Conderacci, who is a change management consultant and has studied and performed improv at the Second City, Annoyance Theater, and IO in Chicago. That is going to be a fun fun interview. Thank you again for listening and I greatly appreciate it if you’d leave a review on iTunes. It does help with the exposure of this podcast. Remember use the principles of improvisation to help you better connect and communicate with those in your organization and in your life.

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Improv Is No Joke – Episode 68 – Greg Conderacci

Greg: [00:00:00] Identity first, then action, then your feelings in the context of your action.

Peter: [00:00:14] Welcome to Improv is no Joke podcast, where it’s all about becoming a more effective communicator by embracing the principles of improvisation. I’m your host Peter Margaritis, the self-proclaimed chief edutainment officer of my business, the Accidental Accountant. My goal is to provide you with thought provoking interviews with business leaders so you can become an effective improviser, which will lead to building stronger relationships with clients, customers, colleagues, and even your family. So let’s start to show.

[music]

Peter: [00:00:46] Welcome to episode 68 and today my guest is Greg Conderacci, and this is the final installment in a three part series on energy management. Greg is the author of Getting Up! Supercharging Your Energy, and an energy management expert because of two main reasons. First, he’s an author on the subject and second in 2015 he rode his bicycle across the United States in only 18 days averaging 150 miles a day. He doesn’t walk his talk. He rides his talk. If you haven’t listened to our prior interviews it would be well worth it to download episode number 35 and episode number 46. As a quick recap, in Episode 35 Greg discusses that in the 21st century it’s less about the time management and more about energy management. Our discussion focused around one’s physical and intellectual energy. In episode 46. Greg discusses emotional energy and those emotional energy vampires. You know these people who suck all the positive energy out and inject their negative energy. Actually we are our own emotional energy vampires because we’re exposed to lots of negative energy which does begin to seep into our heads. Greg gives us some great tips on how to manage those vampires. Today we focus on spiritual energy, which is a mission driven because it’s all about your identity and values, as Greg writes in his book. He goes on to say “spiritual energy, an elusive reservoir of them all, spiritual energy fuels passion, commitment, and endurance. Although for many it’s religious nature, it doesn’t have to be – spiritual energy is embedded in each person’s mission; his or her’s life purpose.” I’m sure you will enjoy this episode because Greg has some great stories to tell and many of them have that ah ha moment to them. Before you get to that interview, I would like to talk about the first five episodes of this podcast are now qualified for CPE self-study credit in the NASBA category of personal development. Those interviews are with Clarke Price, former CEO of the Ohio society of CPAs. Mike Sciortino, author of Gratitude Marketing. Tom Hood… Well you’ve been introduced to him and you will be introduced to him again. Ed Mendlowitz, who’s a partner at Withum, Smith, and Brown. And Karl Ahlrichs, who’s H.R. professional at Gregory and Appel. These episodes are located on the MACPA-BLI self-study Web site and they are mobile friendly. Create an account and purchase an episode. You can listen to them on your daily commute or while working out, or even at your desk! When you’re finished, take the review and final exam on your mobile device or your computer. It’s that easy. While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my web site, only those purchased to the MACPA-BLI self-study Website are eligible for CPE self-study credit. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic: Listen, Learn, and Earn improvs is no joke podcasts on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of receiving CPE credit. OK now let’s get to the interview with Greg Conderacci.

[music]

Peter: [00:04:22] Welcome back to the show. I greatly appreciate you taking time. And you are my first three timer.

Greg: [00:04:31] OK.

Peter: [00:04:34] This is this is part three of our conversation because just as a recap when we were discussing your book Getting up supercharge your energy at the end of our our first call I went there’s so much more there, and you said you know we only touched on the tip of it I said would you do a three part series for me, and you immediately said yes. And we’ve talked about emotional, we’ve talked about intellectual energy, we’ve talked about physical. I’ve got those three correct right?

Greg: [00:05:06] Yup.

Peter: [00:05:06] And today we’ll move that conversation into spiritual and I think you’re really going to enjoy the conversation my audience because in his book, and he had told me about this prior, that this piece of the book was really kind of the meat of everything. And I have completed the book and I agree it is the meat of his book. He ties everything in so brilliantly that it all makes complete sense so I’m looking forward to where you’re going to take this today: on the cycling venture that we’re going to read this spiritual energy.

Greg: [00:05:40] OK. Well let’s well let’s let’s begin with… Just before we began we had a conversation about you getting into bicycling again. I’m really excited that youre doing that. So I’ll get you a spiritual tip that I don’t mention directly in the book but which I really like it underlines the principle of trying to talk about today. Eric Greitens, who is now I guess governor of Missouri I think, wrote a book called Resilience and he said you know the trouble with a lot of Americans is that we begin by thinking about how we feel, and then we take action based on our feelings. That’s how we create our identities. And he says well you know that’s backwards. And he said well you ought to just begin with your identity, which is really what I talk when I say spiritual energy I’m talking about who you are. What your purpose in life is. That’s what it’s really all about. Begin with your identity, then think about feelings. So let me give me a bicycle example. OK.

Peter: [00:06:50] So I’m out on a long ride. And and of course I feel tired. So if I begin with how I feel then the obvious action is I’m tired so I should stop. Ok.

Greg: [00:07:02] Then my identity after I do that is I’m a quitter. The other way around though is if you think well you know what I really am is I’m a long distance bicycle rider and that’s what I do. So you know 100 miles 200 miles. That’s who I am. Well then if I start feeling tired Well you know that’s no big deal because that’s part of the game. So the idea is identity first, then action, then your feelings in the context of your actions, and if you look at people who make a powerful impact in the world, they all do that on the basis of spiritual energy. Ghandi, King, Mother Theresea You know all these people didn’t get elected to anything. They didn’t have armies. But the sheer power of who they were came through, drove their lives, and changed the world. So that is spiritual genius the ultimate source of energy…

Peter: [00:08:09] OK so I’m going to bring what you just said into present. Like actually today. So I picked up my son from school and I told him I have this podcast interview with yourself and I said I’m tired. And he goes yeah Dad you travel. I was in Phoenix when I flew back to BWI I drove to Hershey P.A. all day and yada yada yada. I am tired. But as you are as you were discussing this I’m going. All right if I twist it into the identity. Well I’m an entrepreneur. I’m I’m on this teaching circuit the lecture circuit per se. This is what I do.

Greg: [00:08:52] Yes.

Peter: [00:08:52] I should feel tired.

Greg: [00:08:55] Yeah.

Peter: [00:08:55] It’s part of the game. And as you are talking And as we’re doing this I’ve got energy back and I actually told my son I said I want to do this interview with Greg because I know he will give me energy but I had no idea How you were going to do that. It’s brilliant. I mean I could just as you were describing this I could actually feel my mindset change and fall into that well it’s part of the game you are supposed to feel this way. And the other thing I heard is that you are an ultra distance rider.

Greg: [00:09:31] Mhm.

Peter: [00:09:32] The only thing ultra that I’ve ever done is beer. That’s about.

Greg: [00:09:40] Hahaha. Practice makes perfect.

Peter: [00:09:44] That’s true.

Greg: [00:09:45] Well you know I think you know part of me is it is a very real thing. What a lot of people miss though is it’s not just this purpose thing it’s not just personal – it’s corporate too. Organizations. I work with a lot of organizations such as working on their marketing. Who are you? And you know keep a good strong solid purpose for your organization. You’re going to attract the kind of people you’re looking to attract. You can attract clients you’re looking to attract. And if you don’t know who you are, or if the only purpose in your organization is to make money, people see through that right away. And the opposite is very powerful. When I teach my students… as you know I teach at Johns Hopkins high School. Well they all go through the process outlined in the book about who am I, sort of thinking about what their real purpose in life is, what their real identity is. And again as you know the book is kind of a quick and dirty process. It’s not one that takes forever. It’s not heavy theology or philosophy. It’s just trying to get in touch with who you really are. Because if you can communicate. People will trust you and you’ll be much more successful. You have a purpose. You know I teach this energy stuff all over the country. One of the saddest things is when people come up to me afterwards and say you know I don’t have any purpose in my life. It’s I’m just Putting one of the other working every day. Hoping for retirement. And like oh my god. That’s a that’s really sad.

Peter: [00:11:19] Yeah.

Greg: [00:11:19] Because they had much less energy and they live a much tougher life.

Peter: [00:11:27] Right.

Greg: [00:11:27] There’s an old saying ego. Tough choices, easy life. Easy choices, tough life. And that’s really what this is all about. Figuring out who you are getting in touch with that, behaving in line with. That’s where the real juice comes from.

Peter: [00:11:45] I’m thinking of Simon Sinek and it starts with why and people don’t buy what you do they buy why you do it. Along those lines and I think about our identity and I want to bring you mentioned the gentleman that we both know. You know him a lot better than I do what Frank Ryan did… It’s been three years now?

Greg: [00:12:05] Yeah two or three years.

Peter: [00:12:07] Do you mind telling that story?

Greg: [00:12:09] Well I mean I tell that story all the time because Frank, in addition to being our mutual friends, which of course why is why he’s famous, of course, he’s also famous for walking across the country. And you know people look at me and say great way to go riding your bike across the country. That’s incredible. Yeah bit… Frank walked. It was a hundred and fifty plus days. And what people don’t understand and you and I do because you read his book and I know him well and so we had many conversations… he and I teach a course on energy and endurance based on his walk and my bike ride. But what’s critical. I mean people don’t realize he peeled the bottom off his feet. Imagine what that must have felt like. He had bone spurs. He limped for probably two thirds of that trip. He limped across the country. But The reason that he did it is because, A, he’s Frank. Marines don’t quit. Plus he’s absolutely dedicated to raising money for this nonprofit that he the chairman of the board of for years and years and years and people say well what gives you that get up to don’t go all the way across the country. It’s purpose. He had every step he took there was a reason behind it. Same thing when I was riding and trying to raise money for our daily bread, which is probably Maryland’s most famous soup kitchen. I helped start it 35 years. You know I knew as I was riding across the country that I was raising money based on the mileage. So I knew every mile was another or you know dollar nickel whatever for those guys. And it’s the type of thing where that gets you up in the morning it keeps you going. Even win heat, headwinds, rainstorms it’s like oh yeah it’s tough. But boy you know I get to go sleep in a hotel tonight after I ride and a lot of those guys don’t. So grateful thankful and you’re energized. It’s all about purpose.

Peter: [00:14:25] So going back to the person who said I’m just trying to make it through the day. I mean I do believe we all have a purpose. There’s some reason why we are here. We’re here to have some impact. And that can be a journey. How do you counsel people who say they don’t feel like they have a purpose? Do you begin to ask questions? Do you begin to ask them kind of explore where maybe that lack of energy is and trying to make suggestions? Well how does that work, or does it?

Greg: [00:14:58] It does work, and the example that I use is if you have a Labrador Retriever.

Peter: [00:15:04] I Have two.

Greg: [00:15:05] Yeah there you go. It’s one of the most popular dogs in America or you know. So it’s like. All right. The purpose of a lab is fetch. OK. And how long can you throw that ball or throw that stick before he’s tired of fetching it? The answer is NEVER. Until your arm falls. And because what’s going on here is that dog has a purpose that’s in its DNA. Just like your purpose and my purpose is in our DNA. Now we’re a much more complicated than dogs, but there’s stuff where if we’re doing what we should be doing, if we’re aligned with our purpose and know what it is, we live it every day, we get enormous amounts of juice. We can do that all day long. OK. Because, as I like to say, Mother Nature is not stupid. She gave us these talents for a reason and that reason is our purpose. And when we use our talents aligned with our purpose, we feel great!

Peter: [00:16:02] Yeah.

Greg: [00:16:04] And it’s universal! It’s it’s you, it’s me, it’s labs. I mean it’s you know it’s really pretty much universal. And that’s why, when you look at people who are happy in their jobs, and the answer is that the reason they are happy is not because they’re making a lot of money. That’s who they are. They’re doing what they should do. And that’s enormously powerful because… I mean part of it is is it your purpose isn’t necessarily a job. You can spread your purpose over a number of different jobs. I mean you’re a great example. I mean you’re a CPA. OK. You’re not doing cash returns. Hahaha.

Peter: [00:16:46] No. No.

Greg: [00:16:50] So you’re a CPA. That’s you know that’s those are the initials after your name; it is your credentials. A Powerful one. But you know your calling is way different than that, or includes that and many other things. And so you’re using your talents in a way that clearly aligns with who you are because that’s where you get the energy to do all this crazy stuff.

Peter: [00:17:15] Thank you very much. And I do agree. There is a quote that you have in your book. It’s Confucius. Choose the job you love and you’ll never have to work a day in your life. When I went when I went full time with this job I tell people I have not worked a day in seven years. When I started in 2010. Ask my wife you get a completely different answer.

Greg: [00:17:38] Hahahaha.

Peter: [00:17:38] And she will also say I’ve never seen him happier.

Greg: [00:17:43] Yes. It really is. You know I mean and that happiness is what it is. That’s a big source of energy. You know I mean people do better and have more juice for what they’re happier doing. I mean the easiest translation for that is. OK. So it’s Friday afternoon and you’re exhausted right. I’m exhausted. Well here comes come’s happy hour.

Peter: [00:18:09] Hahahaha.

Greg: [00:18:09] Why. You know all those people who were drag themselves out of work at 4:30 5 o’clock on a Friday are totally different human beings at happy hour an hour later.

Peter: [00:18:20] Right.

Greg: [00:18:21] And you know obviously that’s a different kind of happy, but part of it is you notice if you doing something you enjoy. If you look at why people have after work softball and you talk to anybody who’s one of those and they’ll all say wow I want to go work this hard at work all day long. Well it’s because they’re doing something they love to do. And so figuring out you know in the book there is a process… it is not a complicated process figuring out who you are, what gives you juice, where your energy comes from. It’s really powerful. Often, it’s what people do for fun in. In the book is you know I did this process that were trying to articulate a personal mission. One guy came up to me and he said I’m a surfer. That’s what I do. I’m a surfer. And when he graduated from college you surf big waves all over the world. And he said you know I knew I had to do something that pays the bills here. And so we just like you know wow trading on Wall Street. And you know it’s just it’s just like surfing. You got to know which way to pick. You got to know which stock to pick. You got to know when you get on. You got to know when to get off. You can get hurt. And that’s part of the fun at the end of the day you got it. And he said what I do all day is I just surf. Of course it’s very profitable. He’s very successful. But part of that is the same adrenaline the same reflexes. The same sense of what’s right and what’s wrong, and being a great surfer makes him a great trader. Yeah. So he’s using that set of talents in a way that’s very profitable. He surfs.

Peter: [00:20:15] Well when you said he was a surfer then you went to Wall Street I couldn’t make the connection but now I have. So let me ask you this question. We see that there’s a lot of unhappy workers out there.

Greg: [00:20:27] You bet.

Peter: [00:20:28] Especially in corporate America, and really in the book… So they’re not aligned. The mission vision of the organization is not aligned to those who are employed, It sounds like to me. There’s a disconnect. And and in a lot of companies because well I’m seeing more of it in the older more established companies that have been around for a while. That have gotten so big. But then we’ve got some new large businesses that have formed over the past 10 15 years. And there seems to be more alignment with the organization itself, the culture, as well as transcending that into the people to keep them energized and happy and will walk through fire for the organization. So how does how does a company do that? How does how does somebody like GM change their culture to be more like quote unquote a Google completely different into this economy or even in some small essence to maintain that workforce? At least have a happy workforce.

Greg: [00:21:37] Well you know it’s interesting because I think the smart companies are doing a great job of unwinding their values and their purpose with the values and purpose of their employees. I’ll give you an immediate example. My kid just changed jobs from a old traditional company. I mean it was like 1956. It’s the type of thing your dad and my dad grew up. That’s how antiquated it was. And she just changed jobs to work for a bright young company, and I’m not talking about one run by Millennials. I’m talking about a company that’s been around for you know a couple of decades, but has that fresher view. And she she she called me up and she said Dad I just got out of orientation with the manager and I said well how dod it go and she said well he stood up and said… you know there was a small group of you know employees and he stood up and said You’re here because we love you and we want you to be happy.

Peter: [00:22:49] Wow.

Greg: [00:22:49] And of course you know if you if you put on your energy hat and you think about that, that wasn’t stupid. That was not touchy feely. We want to know what you want to do. And we have lots of work here and we’ll find the best fit for you. And you know I mean that’s that’s like right. I was like did you read the book? I mean obviously those principles are very very powerful in terms of I want these people energized. So you people are there to understand the purpose. They’re there to make sure their purpose aligns, which you talk about. My purpose as an individual aligns with my companies purpose. That’s when you get maximum performance. And that’s really what a leader does, as opposed to a managers. Managers solve problems and make sure trains run on time. LEaders, as you know, are all about a a vision, a mission, values, align people with those values. That’s where the real performance comes.

Peter: [00:23:57] Because early on in my podcast I interviewed, and I made this comment multiple times, One of my author friends. Her name is Karen Young. She wrote a book Drama Free H.R. quit knocking on my door, and during the interview she said that her her company the attrition rate was higher than she wanted it to be. And they sat back as a group and said well maybe we need to go and rework our Mission Vision core values. And they spent a considerable amount of time of getting those right. And then they said we’re going to change the hiring process. Instead of putting an ad up and giving somebody an application to have them fill it out, go through the interview process, hire them, give them the you know the onboarding stuff. They flipped it around. They would put an ad out for a job then the first thing that they had to do before they even got an application was to go to the Web site read the Mission, Vision, core values and then have a phone interview to articulate how they saw themselves fitting in to the core values, mission, vision of the organization. If the person could articulate that in a way then they would get the application, then they would go through the screening process, and by flipping the hiring practice their attrition rate almost disappeared.

Greg: [00:25:12] Yeah.

Peter: [00:25:13] And they had motivated… they had energized employees.

Greg: [00:25:17] Yeah yeah. I mean if you ask anybody in any company you know well what what’s the most important thing for the employees here. Because you to use your example you know there are a lot of CPAs. I could hire 50 CPA but I want to hire the one that fits my organization. Well the best way to do it is the way you just outlined because that says that the purpose of the person hiring and the purpose of the organization are aligned. It’s not rocket science. I mean part of this is what happens a lot of organizations, and a lot of people too, make the mistake of taking you know sort of the favorite values, as opposed to the values that really drives them. So for example you know I asked CPAs all the time what are your values. They say honest, integrity, hard work. And you know and recently somebody said punctuality.

Peter: [00:26:09] Hahaha.

Greg: [00:26:09] Always glad to hear it, but… but it’s like OK so what is it about integrity that gets you out of bed. And so you know from reading the book my values are s l e e p: sleep.

Peter: [00:26:24] Right.

Greg: [00:26:25] Because that’s something that I like but what gets me out of bed which is you know it’s easy to remember because it’s S for spirit. I like spirit. School Spirit. Holy Spirit. I like people with Spirit juice. You know L stands for light. I like to see the light bulb go on. That’s what gets me going. I know that’s what energizes you too. And then I couldn’t do what I do not like energy and endurance, so that takes care of those, and finally you know it’s all about productivity. What good is all of this energy not doing something productive? So you know so when I tell people my values are sleep, they’re like hey that’s different. Well yeah. Even if you look at Google’s value, if you look at like Zappos, you look at their values, and then you look at the companies and you say yeah. I see how those values apply to this stuff. Now do they live them 100 percent? Well nobody is 100 percent. you know if you really know what your values really are, then that’s very powerful.

Peter: [00:27:33] Well as you write in the book, you use an example of a company that no longer exists. A small company out of Houston called Enron.

Greg: [00:27:44] Right. Haha.

Peter: [00:27:45] And you do say that Enron had a mission vision core competencies. They had a code of conduct. But then you said… Do you remember the quote that Ken Lay said around that?

Greg: [00:27:58] Yes but you know rules and regulations are important but you know they shouldn’t take it too serious. I mean What happened in Enron is they lived their values. They really did. Except those weren’t the values they put on the wall. And so I think everybody lives his or her values, If by value you mean what’s important to you. In their case it’s important to make as much money as we can by hook or by crook. Yeah sure. They lived according to their values. But not what’s on the website. OK. But that’s the way they operate. And you know I think if you talk about recruiting and maintaining… a company that can truly articulate it’s real values, I mean the values so that when you show up there you see them either as a customer or as an employee and you see it every day. That’s power. And so many companies have these… really it’s a set of platitudes. What I always tell companies when I go in is I say okay you get all these values, but do you compensate people based on those values?

Peter: [00:29:07] Ohhhh.

Greg: [00:29:07] What do you mean? Show me the H.R. system that links to your values that compensates people who are behaving that way. Because right now you’re compensating people for behaving some way. WEll what is that way? And you know that usually gets a thoughtful look or two. It’s sometimes painful.

Peter: [00:29:32] Yeah I bet. Going down this path and you talk about Enron and basically there was a misalignment in there. But when you when you’re doing this, I think the biggest piece out there is the word trust. The people have to have trust in the senior management, in the C-suite, and the C-suite has to have trust in people. And I recently heard a guy by the name of David Horsager, who wrote the book the trust edge. He keynoted at the National Speaker’s Association. He states everything of value is built on trust, and the lack of trust is the biggest expense organizations incur.

Greg: [00:30:24] Absolutely.

Peter: [00:30:24] And I’ve I’ve used that phrase a number of times recently and I just watched the looks on everybody’s face in the audience, and it takes them a moment. And then you get that ah ha or oh crap look and going yeah that’s right. And how do we make that trust that that belief that spirituality, or however we want to phrase it, within organizations that people buy in. And it’s it’s it’s not easy.

Greg: [00:30:57] No I think you’re you’re absolutely right. What I always tell CEOs that I’m working with is really really their most important tital is chief reputation officer.

Peter: [00:31:09] Hm.

Greg: [00:31:09] I mean that’s that’s really what it’s all about because if you’ve got a bad reputation you got no business. You have Enron. Arthur Andersen is a great example. Lose trust. Lose business. That’s all it is. And employees and customers. All of that together. You know from the book that Trust is a function of credibility times intimacy divided by the perceived risk. So essentially.

Peter: [00:31:37] I’ve heard that before. Wait a minute. No no. It was Pam Devine.

Greg: [00:31:43] Hahaha.

Peter: [00:31:43] I remember when I was talking to her about trust she rattled that Off.

Greg: [00:31:49] You know she got that from.

Peter: [00:31:51] I think she said it was from you, but yes. Could you say it again?

Greg: [00:31:55] Yeah. Actually it’s from a company called Synectix which came up with this about 25 years. Still around, in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and they said you know trust is a function of credibility, how believable you are, times your intimacy, how much you care, divided by my perception of the risk I’m taking in trusting. Obviously because there’s a multiplier in the numerator, if Either of those is zero. I mean you get no credibility or if you have no intimacy, by intimacy It’s really kind of relationship. Teddy Roosevelt said it best. I don’t care what you know until I know the care. And if you look at how people select professionals, whether they’re CPAs or physicians or whatever. It’s basically do I like them or not like.

Peter: [00:32:49] Right.

Greg: [00:32:49] And the biggest mistake that a professional can make, whether the person is a CPA or a physician or whatever, is to forget that care part. You know everybody focuses on the credential, the CPA the M.D. or law degree, and that’s fine. But there are a lot of people who have those. The person that I’m going to pick, and I have my choice. I pick the one I like. You know the example that I use for my students at Hopkins is look. How did you select your pediatricians for your kid? And invariably the answer is I selected my pediatrician based on a mother’s recommendation who’s already there. What did she say? She’s great with the kids. I really like him or really like her. And it’s like why? Because hey we don’t know anything about pediatrics. You know the person’s board certified, person has as a CPA. What more do I need to know? They know what they’re doing. OK. Now can I work with them and do I like them? And then that becomes the differentiator.

Peter: [00:33:59] I think you would agree with this and I don’t remember we’ve talked about this before, but when I when I speak to audiences a CPA I ask what business they’re in. And I get consulting I get all this other stuff and I go no. That’s a byproduct. And I get that Scooby Doo look from them. You’re in the people business first and foremost. Everything else is a byproduct because you have to have people that work with you. You have to have customers who are individuals. Who are human beings. And we have to have some type of connection to this point, and we only do business with people we trust, respect. When we get referrals or stuff. Like you said you could be a CPA but if you can’t communicate, if you can’t that connection with your client… And whether this is a client in a public forum or youre a CFO… it’s not going to work. So I think we’ve kind of outlined this I think in business today when we look at individuals and look at this process, we also need to remember we all are people and we all have needs and we all like to be cared for. We all have feelings and stuff and this is not the touchy feely part, but recognize that versus looking at somebody well as like just an asset on a balance sheet that has no tangibility.

Greg: [00:35:15] Absolutely. You know the story I like to tell is like I took a group of 250 CPAs in a big firm in Baltimore through the mission exercise. And when I got to the end I said OK would anyone like to share their mission. And a young woman raised her hand and she said I’m a jump partner.

Peter: [00:35:37] A What?

Greg: [00:35:37] What what do you mean? Well if you’ve never jumped out of an airplane, what they do is they lash you to somebody who has. That’s your jump partner. So you don’t have to worry when you jump out of the airplane. You’re going to be OK. That person will pull the chute. That person will guide you. I’m a jump partner. That’s who I am. And I thought there’s somebody who really understands what you just said. OK. Because who doesn’t want a CPA that’s a jump partner? That’s why I’m paying you. I’m not paying you to do taxes. I could do that on Turbo Tax. I’m paying you to stand by my side if the IRS knocks on my door. I’m here to make sure that I’m not missing something that I know that I didn’t know I didn’t know. So you know that’s the real power. So she articulated them just beautifully. I use her as an example al of the time of what you know a real mission sounds like. It has you know it has the content and it has emotional and spiritual power.

Peter: [00:36:45] So I love that because I when you said jump partner I had my mind was racing like 18 directions. But when you put it like that I and I will use that in future speaking engagements because I love the visual nature of that picture. And really also anybody who’s in the profession, whether you’re public, whether you’re in the industry, whether you’re in government, whether you’re teaching. We really all should be partners as it relates to the complexity of what we deal with.

Greg: [00:37:19] It’s a it’s a great image but I’ve had you know I’ve worked with you you know and I had thousands and thousands of CPAs. People said a whole bunch of just incredible things. You know I’ve had CPAs who said you know I’m a gardener. What do you mean? Well you know I like to work my garden of course but I’m interested in helping organizations grow. I’m about growth. OK fine. So you know I had one CPA who said I’m really a bartender. Not like I serve drinks but what I do is I listen and I make people feel good. That’s what I do that you know… so you get you get these kind of responses and it’s like Yeah. So what these people have done is they’ve taken their profession and they’ve aligned it with their mission and their values. And that’s where the energy comes. Those are the people who are most successful because they understand not only but everybody else understands, but you also have the experience and the emotional, intellectual, and spiritual horsepower. That’s what makes you a successful anything.

Peter: [00:38:39] Exactly. And when you say clients I know you’re talking about internal and external, and we’re talking about whether you’re a CFO, managing partner, staff accountant, or whatever. And along those lines is a recent quote I’ve heard from Simon Sinek about leadership which I believe ties into this because you know we think of leadership… There’s a difference authority and leadership.

Greg: [00:39:02] Correct.

Peter: [00:39:04] And the way he put it was Your title doesn’t matter, your level, on the way that we have a positive effect on another person. Period.

Greg: [00:39:17] Right.

Peter: [00:39:17] Which which ties into the whole spirituality as you’re outlining and being aligned with your organization stuff. And I love that quote because I don’t think I’ve really ever looked at leadership other than… Not so much for authority level but from a different perspective. That kind of helped align my thought process that you know if you want to empower and get a lot of energy in your work force… Herb Keller. Southwest Airlines. He was known as a Jack Daniels chugging, chain smoking kind of guy, but he would talk to the CFO the same way he would talk to a baggage handler or a pilot or somebody in the corporate office. He didn’t feel like he was above everybody because he was a founder. He was just like everybody else and treated everybody the same.

Greg: [00:40:16] Well you know that’s… And that’s really very very powerful because that is you know that it’s what a leader is really all about. That’s what the Sinek part about what your Why is… that’s where the trust comes from, that’s where the credibility comes from. That’s where real leadership comes from. People just want to follow people when they know who they are. And that’s why you know branding is so important these days. You know it’s why some of the best CPA firms have the strongest because you know people know what they’re getting. They know what to expect.

Peter: [00:41:00] I was actually thinking about how do we kind of wrap and tie everything together. And I think maybe the best way to do that is through touching on those four energy pieces kind of like in order, and just kind of recap. So everybody who has maybe listened to all three episodes can… I think it’ll be a nice way to kind of tie up this package and our conversation.

Greg: [00:41:29] Right. OK. Well as you remember from the beginning it’s all about PIES.

Peter: [00:41:34] Right.

Greg: [00:41:36] Physical energy, intellectual energy, emotional energy, and spiritual energy. As we said today, spiritual energy is the most powerful one. But often people don’t really understand it until they work their ways through the first three. Physical energy. You know just the ability to go a long way or you know run a long way or drive from Harrisburg and catch that flight and just getting up and getting up and going is one that a lot of people focus on and that is the least important of them all, but that’s the industry that five hour energy drink and Red Bull and Starbucks are really good at. Well there’s nothing wrong with a little caffeine. But for the longer more durable types of energy, the other three are much better. Intellectual energy is what people usually get paid for. Do you have the energy to solve puzzles, solve the problem, meet my needs. That type of thing. We learned about trust. I’ll trust you if I believe you can meet my needs, and so intellectual energies is frankly what we get paid to use, and there are many ways that we can improve that, and many ways we can lose it. Distraction or you know too much in front of the email. Now of course emotional energy is the one that often causes the most problems. People are always talking about well you know I have this energy vampire at work… So these oxygen bandits are often a problem, but emotional energy is a powerful thing and you can turn them around. We talked about ways to do it but my favorite way is to kill them with kindness. Usually what makes someone an energy vampire is some kind of fear. If you can remove that, then you’ve converted a vampire. And then finally of course is spiritual energy. We spent all day talking about it today. That relates to your purpose; who you really are. And if you’re living that life, if you’re doing that as much as you can, You’re going to be happier and you’re going to be more successful. So it’s all about more energy – not about more time. We don’t get any more time. 24 hours a day. But we can all get way more energy.

Peter: [00:43:59] I will say that through our conversations, and we will have many more, I have learned a lot and we started out with the physical energy and I found myself really trying to apply or manage that physical those ups and downs of those energy levels because I have started a new book and I am hell bent to have the least the manuscript done by my Christmas. So I’m trying to put out 22-2500 words a week to try to get around my 35000 that I found that I need, and my best energy is first thing in the morning.

Greg: [00:44:39] Yes.

Peter: [00:44:40] So the intellectual energy to deal with those distractions… I eliminate those distractions and I work. What I’ve also found is, since I spent a lot of time on an airplane, is if I can conserve energy at different points and use that energy while I’m on the plane, I can crank out a bunch of stuff. Even if it’s on a 15 minute flight to Baltimore or a four hour flight to Phoenix this week, I cranked out a lot of stuff.

Greg: [00:45:07] Yes.

Peter: [00:45:07] I’ve learned more about my energy, my physical, my intellectual, my emotional, and dealing with the vampires and the spiritual energy from your book, from these conversations, and I hope my audience is taken a lot. Because I thank you a lot my friend. I’ve known you for a while. I knew you were brilliant, but I didn’t know you were this great! It’s the best kept secret out there!

Greg: [00:45:34] Haha, oh! Too well kept a secret for this marketing guy.

Peter: [00:45:40] Yeah, You’re the marketing guy! I absolutely enjoyed our time. I’m looking forward to our conversations off line, crossing paths. Hopefully we’re speaking at some conference sooner or later, at the same time. I’ve enjoyed it immensely. I thank you for your friendship and your counsel and they say that you want to put five or six people around you that I’m the weakest link. Well you’re part of that of that five. And thank you so very much. And I look forward to sit down some day soon and just face to face without a computer between us and just catching up and then spending some time with these conversations. I really appreciate it. Thank you so very much.

Greg: [00:46:22] Thank you. It’s been a delight as it always is when working together. Good luck on that book! You can do it.

Peter: [00:46:29] I’ll get it done. And you’ve got a signed copy coming your way.

Greg: [00:46:33] Excellent.

Peter: [00:46:34] That’s guaranteed. Alright my friend. Thank you so very much.

Peter: [00:46:42] I would like to thank Greg for giving his time to record three outstanding episodes on how to supercharge your energy. I have thoroughly enjoyed all the conversations and they have had a tremendous impact on me personally. I would like to talk about the first five episodes of this podcast are now qualified for CPE self-study credit in the NASBA category of personal development. Those interviews are with Clarke Price, former CEO of the Ohio society of CPAs. Mike Sciortino, author of Gratitude Marketing. Tom Hood… Well you’ve been introduced to him and you will be introduced to him again. Ed Mendlowitz, who’s a partner at Withum, Smith, and Brown. And Karl Ahlrichs, who’s H.R. professional at Gregory and Appel. These episodes are located on the MACPA-BLI self-study Web site and they are mobile friendly. Create an account and purchase an episode. You can listen to them on your daily commute or while working out, or even at your desk! When you’re finished, take the review and final exam on your mobile device or your computer. It’s that easy. While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my web site, only those purchased to the MACPA-BLI self-study Website are eligible for CPE self-study credit. This is not nano-learning – this is self-study learning. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic: Listen, Learn, and Earn improvs is no joke podcasts on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of receiving CPE credit. Remember, you can subscribe to my podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play. If you’d like to purchase an autographed copy of my book Improv is no Joke: Using Improvisation to Create Positive Results in Leadership and Life, for $14.99 with free shipping, please go to my website, PeterMargaritis.com, and you’ll see the graphic on the homepage to purchase my book. Please allow 14 days for shipping. You can also follow me on social media. You can find me on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn or Instagram. In episode 68, I interviewed Byron Patrick, who is the managing director of CPA practice at Network Alliance, and the past chair of the American Association of CPAs executive board. Our discussion centers around the benefits of volunteering at your state CPA association, or really at any association. So thank you again for listening and I greatly appreciate it if you take time to write a review on iTunes. Remember to use the principles of improvisation to help you better connect and communicate with those in your organization.

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Improv Is No Joke – Episode 67 – Tom Hood

Tom: [00:00:00] Their SAP system, called Hana, could process every tax return in the history of the world since 1957 to now in under four minutes.

[music]

Peter: [00:00:19] Welcome to Improv is no Joke podcast, where it’s all about becoming a more effective communicator by embracing the principles of improvisation. I’m your host Peter Margaritis, the self-proclaimed chief edutainment officer of my business, the Accidental Accountant. My goal is to provide you with thought provoking interviews with business leaders so you can become an effective improviser, which will lead to building stronger relationships with clients, customers, colleagues, and even your family. So let’s start to show.

[music]

Peter: [00:00:51] Welcome to episode 67. My guest is Tom Hood, who’s the CEO of the Maryland Association of CPAs and the Business Learning Institute. Accounting Today describes Tom by saying, “if there’s a conversation about the future of the accounting profession, you’re bound to hear Tom Hood’s name mentioned as one of the people leading the way.” Tom is doing as much as anyone, and more than most, to lead public accounting forward. Tom helped the CPA profession creative its vision Not once, but twice. And he’s on a mission to help CPAs make sense of the changing and complex world. Our discussion focuses on how technology is impacting the accounting profession and how CPAs needs to begin transforming themselves into an anticipatory CPA. Most CPAs that I interact with do not have a complete understanding of the technology of blockchain and how artificial intelligence interacts with this technology, For example. Tom does an excellent job in explaining both of these concepts along with discussing the MACPA partnership with IBM to train accounting professionals in technology skills such as artificial intelligence, Big Data, and cognitive computing. Go back and listen to my original interview with Tom in episode number three, which occurred in June of 2016, and compare it with this interview. A lot has changed in a short period and now it’s time to start accumulating those skills necessary to better compete in the marketplace when this technology is fully adapted. Before you get to that interview, I would like to talk about the first five episodes of this podcast are now qualified for CPE self-study credit in the NASBA category of personal development. Those interviews are with Clarke Price, former CEO of the Ohio society of CPAs. Mike Sciortino, author of Gratitude Marketing. Tom Hood… Well you’ve been introduced to him and you will be introduced to him again. Ed Mendlowitz, who’s a partner at Withum, Smith, and Brown. And Karl Ahlrichs, who’s H.R. professional at Gregory and Appel. These episodes are located on the MACPA-BLI self-study Web site and they are mobile friendly. Create an account and purchase an episode. You can listen to them on your daily commute or while working out, or even at your desk! When you’re finished, take the review and final exam on your mobile device or your computer. It’s that easy. While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my web site, only those purchased to the MACPA-BLI self-study Website are eligible for CPE self-study credit. This is not nano-learning – this is self-study learning. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic: Listen, Learn, and Earn improvs is no joke podcasts on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of receiving CPE credit. OK now let’s get to the interview with Tom Hood.

[music]

Peter: [00:04:08] Tom, thank you for coming back on my podcast. You are one of the original five and we had a great discussion back then and I want to pick up on it today. But first thank you for taking time out today. I know you’re extremely hectic schedule to spend a lot of time with me today.

Tom: [00:04:24] It’s an honor, Peter. You know that so I’m glad to be here.

Peter: [00:04:28] Thank you. The last time we talked to you you had just come out of Spring Council 2016, and one of the things we discussed in the early podcast was how technology was impacting the accounting profession. And I thought that might be our launching pad today on picking up on that conversation a little more than a year after the fact. So what do you see? What’s going on out there?

Tom: [00:04:53] Well I think it’s funny that we probably talk about kind of the way we’ve thought about this stuff, which is technology is a hard trend. It’s actually progressing at a predictable rate. And so to your point, we’re in a really big deal phase. This stuff is moving very rapidly and we’re starting to see impacts in accounting. So I think the notion of artificial intelligence, blockchain, big data are part of this exponential technology trend, and it truly is an exponential curve right now. So that means it’s pretty much doubling in speed and impact every year. And we’re actually seeing that now in places all over the profesion.

Peter: [00:05:39] I’m seeing a lot more written about it these days, and hearing more about it. There’s like a flood of things running through my mind but I don’t understand blockchain, and we’ll just do little bit of a technical piece and I think a lot of CPAs would hear that term and not sure really what it is. Is it like a 10000 foot description of what this blockchain is?

Tom: [00:06:05] Yeah. Let me take a crack at it. I’m still really wrapping my head around it. But I’ve done quite a bit of reading and collaboration to figure it out. So first of all blockchain is best described as, I think, the Internet of value. So if you think about the old days of the Internet where what they basically did was made search and information online easy to find, locate, and absorb or read. Right. That’s what… think about the early you know HTML protocols and all that stuff. OK. So we didn’t know about that was either before it happened. And I think blockchain’s got that kind of potential disruption, or I would call it an opportunity impact. What blockchain is doing is is going to a deeper level and effectively creating a public ledger. And so as an account, we think about double entry accounting. In the blockchain world, it’s called triple entry accounting.

Peter: [00:07:14] Whoa.

Tom: [00:07:15] So the difference is, in double entry accounting you have all your books and I have books. Suppose we just transacted. I bought you come in and do training for us because you’re one of our top instructors. So I’m going to pay Peter to come in and do training for us. So now in my ledger, I’ve got the transaction from my side, correct? I’m writing a check to Peter. Peter is delivering a service. Peter’s got a ledger on your side that says I’m receiving cash or a check and I’m delivering a service. But in the Internet world there’s another ledger that shows both of our transactions, all sides of the transactions, so you can see what Peter’s transactions and mine were, and it’s all accessible to anyone who gets access to that third general ledger.

Peter: [00:08:06] OK.

Tom: [00:08:07] So now think about that for a minute because when an auditor has to validate things, what’s happening is they’re validating all transactions from the other side. Correct?

Peter: [00:08:20] Correct.

Tom: [00:08:21] So they would be in there validating my transaction with Peter because they can validate it automatically.

Peter: [00:08:30] OK.

Tom: [00:08:31] But if they had a third ledger that had all those transactions securely encrypted so that no one could get access or change them… would they need an audit?

Peter: [00:08:46] Ooooh. Oooh.

Tom: [00:08:51] You get the notion. It goes further than that. So accounting isn’t why they’re doing it, but let’s imagine a stock trade that gets cleared by an intermediary. Or the better example is your deed on your house and the mortgage. So there’s this whole intermediary group that validates that it’s a legitimate deed and that you legitimately own it. And it’s got a lien by your bank.

Peter: [00:09:17] Right.

Tom: [00:09:17] So all of that all of that trust all that kind of trust Real Estate Group does is it has a reputation and they can go validate those transactions. That’s what it’s doing for you and you’re paying money for that. But in a blockchain world, when your deed was created, it creates a secure block of data. Right. And that block of data then validates that transaction and who was a party to it. When you sell that house, the next block gets created, showing the whole chain of transactions around that element of value.

Peter: [00:09:54] OK.

Tom: [00:09:55] And that means it’s all validated without a third party, which means you can transact with other people and they know your deed of trust is legit because of looking at the blockchain. So it’s– you could do this for music… Now then you have to take that idea and say what if this was all in a big database that you could just constantly get access to, if you were authorized and granted access to it? So that that would be the person who owns the thing has the ultimate responsibility of being able to grant other people’s access to it.

Peter: [00:10:30] OK.

Tom: [00:10:33] Haha.

Peter: [00:10:33] This is blowing my mind. Haha.

Tom: [00:10:35] I hear you. I’ll give you a supply chain example that blew my mind. I don’t know if this will make make it clear or make it muddier, but it caught my attention. Actually it is from someone who we did some work with in the association world who’s part of this whole sharing economy. So think about the whole movement to sustainable organic foods, products and things like that, and knowing that it’s really legitimate.

Peter: [00:11:03] Right.

Tom: [00:11:04] Or even in your food supply chain. I want my tuna caught legitimately. I don’t want it in these big farming nets and you know all the things that are you know the illegal fishermen activity. So this supply chain example like took place in Malaysia – it’s real. So there’s these little little guys in a canoe they’re going out in the Indian Ocean, wherever they catch the tuna, and that these are hand caught line caught tuna. They’ve got smartphones. So they go out there they catch the tube they take their smartphone and they click. It geo locates it and it creates the first block of data. This tuna was caught at this location at this point in time. And there’s a picture of that tuna and obviously the record of where that boat was and who the people are. Now when they drive back to the dock, they’re going to hand the tuna off to a processing plant. At that point, they’re going to make create another block of data says now it’s got moved from Tom to Peter, who’s in the processing plant. So you take possession of the fish and now you’re going to start to process it. The really good to me is going to go to the sushi restaurant and the other stuff is going to be processed further down and become you know chunky tuna in a can. Now once that gets split, then the sushi tuna is in another block of data that says here’s when I was processed into sushi and now it’s moving and now it’s going in a truck and now it’s gone to these five sushi restaurants, and each one of those is another element of data all about that fish. And then the other part of it goes into the canning center right, and the cans come out with a bar code that basically connects it back to that block of data. So that by the time you pull that block of data you know that that tuna can off the shelf at your Trader Joe’s.

Peter: [00:12:53] Yeah.

Tom: [00:12:54] They can trace that tuna can back to that tuna on that day in the Indian Ocean.

Peter: [00:13:02] Wow. And this is real?

Tom: [00:13:05] It’s real. It’s happening now. It’s automatic, and so– And then the point of this is that that can be corrupted data because the way they’re processing it is they’re using peer to peer data miners, all kinds of goofy technology terms over here. But this idea of a block being created it’s the block of data that is being created in parallel by like 10 or 15 people, which they claim is actually impossible to recreate or break so that you know the data that’s in the block is attached to the blockchain that labels the transaction you’re dealing with is all legitimate, and there’s no need for any other third party verification.

Peter: [00:13:45] OK. The tuna example helped me a lot. And actually as you were describing the process, I’m thinking it’s like domino’s pizza tracker to some degree.

Tom: [00:13:56] Correct, except it’s all secure.

Peter: [00:13:59] Yes.

Tom: [00:14:00] And it keeps track of both sides of the transaction.

Peter: [00:14:02] So let’s talk about security just for a quick second. The cloud was supposed to be secure as well.

Tom: [00:14:08] Yep.

Peter: [00:14:08] And we’ve come to find out that’s not – that would be my only…

Tom: [00:14:12] Well interesting enough, so I’ve talked to a bunch of security– so two things. One of the differences is, with cloud security, like any security, is all based on encryption, and it’s 32 bit or 64 bit, when you get to like military grade encryption. So that’s one aspect of it. The reality is almost all of the celebrated breaches in security were human breaches, not legitimately hacking breaches, believe it or not.

Peter: [00:14:39] OK.

Tom: [00:14:40] So you know like phishing and and identity theft or people with sticky notes and their passwords. The blockchain is created — I don’t know if you remember this, but the old peer to peer network. So the reason like Napster – remember when Napster cracked the code on pirating music and video?

Peter: [00:14:59] Yeah.

Tom: [00:15:00] They did that from peer to peer. So it couldn’t be caught easily. In other words, peer to peer is when you and I are working independently on different computers on the same thing. And then we create this code so that you and I have access to it, then we add two more people. Pretty soon, you have 10 people doing it with different computers in different locations, and that can’t be traced or hacked because every transaction has a new set of people creating the codes. That’s what, in these blockchain worlds, are called miners, and that’s how they create blocks that you would ultimately connect to and use.

Peter: [00:15:37] Ok.

Tom: [00:15:37] If that makes sense. So I would not say that it won’t be hacked at some point, because everything seems to me. I’m just saying that everyone I’ve talked to is pretty convinced that it’s near impossible, if not impossible, to break the codes because of the way it’s created.

Peter: [00:15:55] OK.

Tom: [00:15:56] So I’ve been taking that at face value for now.

Peter: [00:15:58] Right, for now. So obviously this could have a huge impact on the profession.

Tom: [00:16:04] Yes. All the big 4 have blockchain research centers. The tech industry is the biggest one, investing billions of dollars in figuring the transaction. You could have your own private blockchain. So you could create your own blockchain for like your own IP and those God things. They think is going to be a game changer in the intellectual property business. You think about what China’s been noted for in terms of copying stuff illegally. If it has a blockchain, you can pull down a logo or a picture or a podcast or a video or a book and they will have a blockchain that says this came from Peter Margaritis. And if other things do not have it, no one would ever be able to see that that transaction. So it’s got some I think game-changing ramifications for our economy. I think for accounting firms I would say what would it take to audit blockchain? Like who’s going to help put the trust in it. Because to your point people are going to be skeptical no matter what you say.

Peter: [00:17:04] Right.

Tom: [00:17:04] So who’s going to be the group that put trust in it. I’d love to see that be CPAs. I think everything from inventory control to again transactions, like homeowner transactions can all be legit. You know as I look at the adoption of technology, everyone says you know what when will it be at its biggest impact. And the state of Delaware just passed a law authorizing block change for some securities transactions. So that would tell me If a state is actively thinking about it in that way. That would tell me that it’s a lot more mainstream maybe than many of us think.

Peter: [00:17:45] Yeah I’d agree with that statement very much so. Wow. So this is this potentially… So what’s this 2017? What… ’19, ’20?

Tom: [00:17:55] Yeah I mean it’s certainly in I think in the three year horizon. I mean you know the famous quote from Bill Gates says we tend to overestimate the impact of technology in the next… I think he said three years, and underestimate its impact in the next 10.

Peter: [00:18:11] Right.

Tom: [00:18:12] I think this is like right in that window that three years we can start to see… you know it isn’t going to turn our profession upside down in two years. But I think you’re going to see mainstream adoption starting in three, and then by 10 it’s going to have a… they say, I think it was… Oh Mark Andreasen, the Netscape guy. He believed — he’s kind of guy that formed HTTP and really changed the Internet for everybody. I think he would say this is going to be as big as that. And he said you know the thing is everyone is running around like how does blockchain work. Well no one’s running around asking how HTTP and HTML all work. It works. And now it’s kind of second nature. He thinks that’s what’s going to happen to this idea of blockchain basically conveying transactions of value with multiple parties.

Peter: [00:19:09] Think about like like like a company… there would be a heavy investment into I.T. and doing this, and what would happen to… I mean I’m thinking about that like the finance department because it is– I guess my other question is, with blockchain, can you do a version of data mining?

Tom: [00:19:28] It’s all in a database. So if you have access to a blockchain database, you have access to all the sides of the transaction: who they are, where they originated, who’s involved. Right so you do have a database of all those transactions.

Peter: [00:19:43] OK. So let me ask this question: where does Watson fit into this? Where is AI?

Tom: [00:19:51] So I think you just hit the nail on the head. I think what’s happening with these transactions, in my opinion, Peter, from what I can read and the folks I’m talking to who are working in these spaces. It’s all about this idea of convergence, right? All these technologies are leveraging each other, and that’s what’s creating both the speed and the magnitude of the changes. So you know think about the cloud. So let’s just go back one point. The cloud is what has allowed massive computing power, distributed computing power, to be used. That’s where artificial intelligence got real. So the fact that literally these computers harness every computer in the cloud for their speed – that’s how they get processed. So my son’s in a SAP class in college, and the instructor said the new SAP — SAP is an enterprise level system that’s never– I thought would never be in the cloud. So Oracle, all these guys, are moving to the cloud very rapidly. He said that their SAP system, called Hana, because it runs in the cloud, has all of its computing power at its tips, essentially, could process every tax return in the history of the world, since 1957 to now, in under four minutes.

Peter: [00:21:18] Hahahaha.

Tom: [00:21:18] OK so think about that computing power right. That’s what the cloud is enabling. Not everyone thinks of it that way, but that’s what’s happening. So all that is now happening. So that’s how Watson runs by the way. It isn’t on one big computer up in IBM. It’s on millions of computers all over the world. And what Watson would do– so imagine this blockchain database. And now to your point it’s a database, and all that data can be analyzed with artificial intelligence. So instead of you know Peter and Tom sitting there trying to sort our Excel spreadsheet with 50000 columns in it, in you know two days, Watson is doing that in less than a second. Right. That’s the difference. So now you could crank… and analyze them with extra rules and artificial intelligence so that you’d have access to what does that database really mean.

Peter: [00:22:18] Wow. OK… nobody’s been able to really articulate it to me until now. So as I’m listening to you I’m trying to wrap my mind around it. And then I’m also thinking about OK the profession. And is this really where CPAs… we’ll take it from a firm’s perspective, but maybe it’s both. This anticipatory CPA on… apparently we’re not going to have to crank… I made a comment in a session once. I said I think Excel would be extinct in five years, and you would’ve thought I cussed everybody out in the room. They were appalled. And by what I’m hearing, I might be right.

Tom: [00:23:09] You might be.

Peter: [00:23:10] So what is it what what– this anticipatory– I always said the P and CPA stands for procrastination.

Tom: [00:23:18] Haha. Right.

Peter: [00:23:19] But it really needs to stand for progress. Quit being the historian. And now let’s be the Futurist, per se.

Tom: [00:23:29] Exactly. I mean so the best way I can relate to it is I spent the early part of my career as a CFO and in the corporate world at a highway construction company. And to get the data right, we were probably a million dollar contractor, to get the data right every month, to close the books, So I had everything ready for the taxes and the audit and the bank and all that stuff. It took all we could do to just get the data right. And the thing that was most frustrating to me is I went to school to understand the language of a business so that I could help people that didn’t have to understand that language. Right? The CEO My CEO was a you know Marine, came back from World War II, started this business. He didn’t know accounting. I mean he picked a lot of it up as in his years of experience. But the point was he wanted me to help explain what the numbers meant, and not from what happened. He wanted to know what’s going to happen. Right? I want my numbers today to go look for next month. I mean even here in the association right now I’m sitting here now. I’m I’m wearing the CEO hat. It’s August 18th and I don’t know how we did in July. So if I’m– right? Because our audit was June 30. There’s some legitimate reasons. But the bottom line is most of our accounting folks are spending everything they’ve got just to get the transactions recorded, the books closed, and they’re not having time to analyze and interpret it. And that’s what I need. I need to know what happened in July. I want to know where we are in the middle of August, where we will be at the end of August, And what should we be doing to get on budget and make our our numbers.

Peter: [00:25:09] Right. Right.

Tom: [00:25:11] That’s what I think CPAs need to be doing. And the same thing in in the tax arena. The big growing thing now in taxes is like a holistic tax plan that includes looking at their retirement, their investments, and Are they going to send their kids to college or were their goals for their family. That’s the fun stuff that people care about. Telling them that you know you owe this much taxes isn’t exactly fun, unless are getting a big refund. But but you know that’s not– People don’t say I want to get my taxes on. That’s not what they wake up and do, and a CFO doesn’t wake up to say I’m going to go get my audit done today. That’s not what he wants. He wants to build trust in his bank so he’s got a lot of credit. The audit is a tool but it isn’t what he really would love to have.

Peter: [00:25:56] You said something early in the conversation about your CEO and you needed to explain the language of business to him so he could understand it. And as you’re articulating this I’m going… because I’ve been saying for a while you know we speak a foreign language. Accountants speak a foreign language, and it’s called accounting. And the ability to take complex information and put it in a context that somebody who doesn’t have that knowledge can understand. I think that’s the place of value that that futuristic CPAs should possess.

Tom: [00:26:33] That’s what we mean. When we say get rid of the rearview mirror and start looking outside the windshield, That’s exactly what we mean: understand the language, being able to analyze a business, look for those leading indicators, help explain to the business how they can prosper and thrive, in an age of a lot of turnover. That’s the whole point of what we’re calling kind of this idea of an anticipatory, future-ready CPA.

Peter: [00:26:55] Yeah I love that. And just on a side note, when I was on vacation, a former board member of the Ohio society, who’s a partner in a regional firm that’s based out of Ohio. We had breakfast one morning. We were talking and I mentioned the anticipatory CPA. He goes do you know Tom Hood? I just started laughing. You facilitated the anticipatory CPA to his firm.

Tom: [00:27:23] Ahhh.

Peter: [00:27:23] To all the partners in his firm. I think it was probably here in Ohio at the time.

Tom: [00:27:27] Yup.

Peter: [00:27:27] And his comment to me was our Managing Partner has been talking about technology and how it’s going to change for such a long time. We needed to figure out how to adapt and move forward. And he just raved about that program.

Tom: [00:27:45] Oh that’s cool. I mean you hit it on the head. What. And the thing that I think that worries me and might be with your P for procrastination word here is that we’ve been talking about a lot of this for a long time. And so there are people in the profession, especially folks that are in my age, the boomer generation, who might say yeah I’ve been hearing about this crap you know for 10 years and it’s not happening. And and I think what is woken me up is a realization about the exponential curve. When you actually see the curve, how it goes, it looks linear and slow and then it curves up dramatically into that hockey stick, and that’s when it hits its full pace. So 10 steps in you know you’re doubling in it’s a hundred thousand and it’s going up at that rate. So I think we’re at that stage now because of the cloud and all these technologies that are available. And so someone might have said you know artificial intelligence, A year ago, that’s not going to happen. We’re seeing applications of it right now in the profession. So what’s happening is the pace of change now is real, and it’s happening a lot faster than most people think. So someone might have said oh I looked at that three years ago. Well heck, it could be completely different and much more relevant now. And they might just discount some of that stuff. That’s my worry.

Peter: [00:29:11] Yeah I would I would agree with that. And it’s almost two years now I think almost two years since KPMG and IBM signed the agreement to bring Watson into the auditing practice. Well you know that alphabet soup has that technology. You know the other ones are doing it.

Tom: [00:29:28] They all have it. There’s a commercial application right now — there’s actually two or three — for auditing that even mid-sized firms can have access to now. So it’s already happening.

Peter: [00:29:41] Yeah. That aspect I anticipated would… the Big Four would be all over it. I imagine they’re all over that as you said this next bit of technology. It seems like maybe the top 50 firms, maybe the top 75 firms, probably are in the arena of OK. This is happening. We need to do something about it. The others are… they’re going to be late to the party.

Tom: [00:30:08] And that’s why we want people to do what we think is be come more future ready. Right. The idea of anticipatory is aware, predictive, and adaptive. So do you even know that the trend is real? Can you predict what it might do for you or your client or your company? And then what would you start doing to adapt to it? So the good news about the cloud, in my opinion, is that it will democratize this software very fast. So it won’t be at the top 100 because of money have like this total lock on all these great technologies. The beauty is many of them will become SaaS service models that You can literally subscribe to, like Watson. You can subscribe to Watson as an individual right now for next to nothing.

Peter: [00:30:56] Really?

Tom: [00:30:57] Yeah. So the beauty is this technology is moving down channels so fast because of the cloud. It never would have before, but now because of the mass market it can. And so I think a smart firm is going to be watching, playing, and listening and looking at who the players are, and then looking at when the right time for them to jump into this is. But the reality is they could be jumping into it literally today.

Peter: [00:31:24] Interesting. I didn’t realize you could access Watson on an individual basis.

Tom: [00:31:29] Yeah.

Peter: [00:31:30] And then as we’re discussing this, my university professor hat goes on top of my head and I go where I have to believe we’re not preparing the accounting students who are in the universities today for this new technology; for this new potential disruptiveness. We’re still probably still teaching the same way we’ve been teaching for 30 years.

Tom: [00:31:53] That’s probably on average true. We just had our Student Leadership Academy where we got to talk to young folks, and these are juniors and seniors in probably 15 schools in the mid-Atlantic, and they were mixed on what was happening. But for the most part they were getting some you know things about big data and machines and you know that kind of stuff. So that was starting to happen. And then that’s why we, as we talk our employers, you know it’s going to take a long time for the university systems to adapt. And therefore the employers are going to have to pick up the share. Right? It’s sad but true. So what we did is we actually went and talked IBM because we said IBM, where do you see this disruption going? And they gave me hope. So they came down to visited with us. And two things: First of all they said these are the technologies that they’re betting on. They’re betting on blockchain, big data, and artificial intelligence, a la Watson So that’s the three major exponential technologies they believe are going to be fundamental in the future. And then the second thing they did is they actually gave gave us, and are working with us, to create a special… we’re calling it our future-ready portal of learning, for CPAs to learn about artificial intelligence and big data and data science and deep machine learning and blockchain – all those emerging areas so that they can actually be prepared. And this will make them experts. It won’t make them programmers in artificial intelligence. But it will give them a familiarity with the technology, an understand the terms, so that as this technology starts to unfold they’ll be able to see the power and usage, and they’ll understand the major concepts that will help them when they’re actually working with some of the folks you know controlling these technologies. So yeah we’re going to be releasing that any day now. It’s going to have a series of about… I think we’re going out with like eight or ten courses, and then IBM said they’ll probably be adding you know one or two a month from then on. So it’ll be completely… and it isn’t about IBM technology, interesting enough. It’s about generic. Now they might use examples of IBM technology, but it’s meant to familiarize CPAs with these crazy concepts so that they get comfortable with this kind of technology.

Peter: [00:34:22] So they have made it industry specific, in this case.

Tom: [00:34:26] Actually that’s our job believe it or not. So what happens is IBM is going to give it to us in a generic form. We’re going to curate that and say how much of this seems directly applicable, and then will add whatever context we need to make it more specific to our profession.

Peter: [00:34:43] And is this learning…. Is it on demand? Is it live?

Tom: [00:34:49] On-demand, micro- or nano-based learning. Very small snippets. Easy to consume. And at this point, not qualified for CPE. We have to do a lot of– . So our thinking is to make it very low cost or free to our core customer base and friends, and then probably a little bit of a charge for those who aren’t, and ultimately the idea of CPE is… it’s going to take some work. And so, we might once we crack it, then we say if you want CPE pay for this or we can afford it.

Peter: [00:35:31] I guess in thinking about it, I guess CPE recording, CPE tracking, could be part of blockchain.

Tom: [00:35:39] Absolutely. We have great application for it.

Peter: [00:35:42] So we wouldn’t have to worry about the dings on a webinar or something like that, which shows that if you were attending the whole session. That’s that’s interesting. So it sounds like, for MACPAs, it would be more of a member benefit.

Tom: [00:35:57] That’s our thinking right. And our business learning institute clients.

Peter: [00:36:01] Okay. That’s an investment.

Tom: [00:36:04] Yeah.

Peter: [00:36:04] That’s that’s an investment, but it’s an investment into the future and providing that information. So in the aspect of getting qualified for CPE, it’s going through all of the hurdles in order to get to qualify. And those are not easy hurdles to jump through.

Tom: [00:36:24] Yes exactly. So that’s where we are now. But I mean it’s exciting that IBM was willing to work with us from that standpoint. And it’s exciting. I think it is our way of trying to help, like we do with your MBA Express and others. We’re trying to get the programs that really give people the skills that they’re going to need, instead of just raw technical skills.

Peter: [00:36:51] So it’s almost like do we need to go back into the horizons 2025 project all over again, because I think there are some new things that probably need to be in there, or maybe even needs to be worded a little bit differently, than what we came out with a few years ago.

Tom: [00:37:05] Well it is interesting that you brought that up. We are going to be releasing research in the next probably couple of weeks that really went to what are the future ready competencies you’re going to need to work with machines, in this age of robots. And we looked at every one of the major thought leaders in this space. Geoff Colvin, humans are underrated. I know you read and talked about the book. The Age of the second machine by Brynjolfsson and MacAfee. The fourth industrial revolution. We took all those books and studied like what they were saying about the future. We cataloged all that, created a matrix, and added the horizons on there. And sure enough, the Horizons work is about… you know there’s a competencies we believe are critical for the future, and the horizons actually had six of them right.

Peter: [00:37:59] OK.

Tom: [00:38:00] And I think for me, what I think cause that, is when you crowdsource that, which is what the Horizons did, both in person and virtual. Something like 75000 people weighed in. That’s what you get. You actually get some pretty heavy work that’s relevant. So we’re really publishing that a couple weeks, but it is effectively the Horizons plus a couple.

Peter: [00:38:24] Horizons on steroids.

Tom: [00:38:26] Yeah that’s it. Enhanced.

Peter: [00:38:28] Now when you say we, you’re talking about the Maryland Association did this research and has put this information together, and is that in conjunction with the AICPA or is that…?

Tom: [00:38:39] This was just us. This was through our business learning institute and yeah we just– we’ve just been hearing everyone getting nervous about it. Obviously the IBM thing gave us some insight. So we just kind of said it’s time to just update that research, effectively, and we just took a hunch and said let’s look at all the major books and sources and catalog it and create a matrix and look across the matrix to find out where the commonalities are.

Peter: [00:39:11] And you said this is coming out very soon?

Tom: [00:39:14] About two weeks.

Peter: [00:39:15] Where will it be published?

Tom: [00:39:17] We’ll probably be publishing a white paper, we’ll do a press release. It’ll be on BLI’s website.

Peter: [00:39:22] OK.

Tom: [00:39:23] I’ll send you a copy the minute we get it ready.

Peter: [00:39:25] OK. So here’s here’s the thing. When I go out in the program, and if I’m talking about the Horizons 2025 project and I ask the audience, Has anybody read this? I had one person who did because he was the chair of the state society’s board. And I actually had a copy outside and Nobody read it. So I think we’ve got to find a way to get this information out there, and maybe multiple media sources, to get people to read the thing.

Tom: [00:39:54] Yeah.

Peter: [00:39:54] And to understand it.

Tom: [00:39:55] It’s one of the profession’s, unfortunately, best kept secrets.

Peter: [00:39:59] It really is. And once I explain to everybody what it is, and kind of go through the competencies, the light goes on. They get it, but nobody’s really spent any time, and knowing the busy life of a CPA… My concern is that, when they walk out of the session, they’ve left the 2025 project, that knowledge, back in the classroom and haven’t taken it with them.

Tom: [00:40:23] Exactly.

Peter: [00:40:24] And that is that is a challenge, To get that changed because. I mean there’s so much information coming at us from every which direction. Like I said, I think that the procrastination does kind of kick in, especially with something like that.

Tom: [00:40:40] Yup.

Peter: [00:40:40] I would I would have to assume that there’s a group of naysayers out there, because there always is. And hopefully this group is not too vocal or gaining any ground or making any unwanted noise, or I hate to use this term, but creating fake news.

Tom: [00:41:04] Yeah.

Peter: [00:41:04] Have you heard of anything like that?

Tom: [00:41:07] I mean it’s always going to be the folks– So what I say to those folks is, if you watch the Super Bowl last year, you saw a commercial with H&R block and IBM Watson.

Peter: [00:41:18] Yeah.

Tom: [00:41:20] So if you don’t think it’s coming to a theater near you, what would that tell you? That’s like the slowest end of the tax preparation market, and it’s showing up there. I think you know the fact is you can under estimate it, but our research, and obviously we’ve hired a global Futurist, Daniel Burrus, to help us. The argument about this stuff is these are hard facts. These are future facts that, if you ignore them, what I would say to them is then why don’t you start thinking about what’s the predictable problem that will happen when you don’t do any of this stuff.

Peter: [00:42:00] You’re out of business.

Tom: [00:42:02] Right.

Peter: [00:42:03] Very simply.

Tom: [00:42:05] Yeah.

Peter: [00:42:05] It kind of goes along the lines of succession planning. I think succession planning right now in the profession is can somebody buy me?

Tom: [00:42:12] Right. Right.

Peter: [00:42:13] Versus developing the talent.

Tom: [00:42:15] And the price is going down.

Peter: [00:42:17] Right. Wow. That’s a whole lot of information, and in a short amount of time. Is there anything, as we begin to wrap up, is there anything else that you’re seeing out there that we haven’t discussed that would be beneficial to the audience?

Tom: [00:42:35] The only thing I would say is what’s happening is we’re in this period where change is real and firms and companies have to adapt. And 78 percent of our business industry members said that they’re feeling moderate to severe disruption. So they want their CPA firms, and they want their CFOs, to help them be proactive, trusted advisers. What’s happening though is we’re also busier than ever. If you talk to anyone, The moniker is I’m busy. I’m really busy.

Peter: [00:43:04] Mhm.

Tom: [00:43:04] So I think we’re dealing with these two powerful forces: the kind of force of staying up on the day to day, while you keep falling behind. Right? This idea of the urgent. I got to get this done. I’ve got to catch up. Versus the important, which is the other force of I’ve got to move my firm or my company forward. Now in the old days, when change was slower, that urgency of moving the firm forward, like changing my culture, transforming my business model… that wasn’t urgent. It wasn’t even important. So now what we’ve got to do is we’ve got to make room for that important stuff more than ever because that stuff’s making the difference. And the day to day, while it still has to happen, it’s urgent, it can’t kind of shoulder out the important. So I think that’s what everyone’s dealing with. Wow do I get to kind of move into that important phase a little bit more so I can keep things moving?

Peter: [00:44:00] Wow. OK. So those of you who are listening to this take that into consideration. It’s another way I guess work life balance… the firm and the organizations’ balance. You still need to get the day to day done, but you need to have a portion of it carved out to figure out what’s coming tomorrow, which is coming a lot quicker than it did 10 15 20 years ago. That’s great. Tom I can’t I can’t begin to thank you enough. I love these conversations. I could talk with you for hours, and we have in the past, but I appreciate you taking time and spending time with me and sharing this knowledge, this import knowledge, with my audience.

Tom: [00:44:39] Same here. It’s also good catch up to you Peter, so keep it going.

[00:44:45] I’m trying. You too. Hahah.

[00:44:50] I’d like to thank Tom again for being a guest today and discussing the impact technology is having on the accounting profession.I would like to talk about the first five episodes of this podcast are now qualified for CPE self-study credit in the NASBA category of personal development. Those interviews are with Clarke Price, former CEO of the Ohio society of CPAs. Mike Sciortino, author of Gratitude Marketing. Tom Hood… Well you’ve been introduced to him and you will be introduced to him again. Ed Mendlowitz, who’s a partner at Withum, Smith, and Brown. And Karl Ahlrichs, who’s H.R. professional at Gregory and Appel. These episodes are located on the MACPA-BLI self-study Web site and they are mobile friendly. Create an account and purchase an episode. You can listen to them on your daily commute or while working out, or even at your desk! When you’re finished, take the review and final exam on your mobile device or your computer. It’s that easy. While all Improv is no Joke podcasts are available on my web site, only those purchased to the MACPA-BLI self-study Website are eligible for CPE self-study credit. This is not nano-learning – this is self-study learning. You can get detailed instructions by visiting my website at PeterMargaritis.com and clicking on the graphic: Listen, Learn, and Earn improvs is no joke podcasts on my home page. I hope you enjoy this exciting and flexible new way of receiving CPE credit. Remember, you can subscribe to my podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play. If you’d like to purchase an autographed copy of my book Improv is no Joke: Using Improvisation to Create Positive Results in Leadership and Life, for $14.99 with free shipping, please go to my website, PeterMargaritis.com, and you’ll see the graphic on the homepage to purchase my book. Please allow 14 days for shipping. You can also follow me on social media. You can find me on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn or Instagram. In episode 68, I interviewed Greg Conderacci, who’s the author of Getting up! Supercharging Your Energy. This is the final episode of a three-part interview with Greg. Greg did write a review on my podcast and stated “as accountants enter their crazy busy season, this podcast is especially important. Manage your energy, and your value, not just your time. I thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with Peter and am looking forward to the next two installments.” If you haven’t heard the first two installments, go back to listen to episode 35 and 46. It is well worth your time. Thank you again for listening, and I greatly appreciate if you would take time and leave a review on iTunes for me. Remember to use the principles of improvisation to help you better connect and communicate with those in your organization.

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